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h4cker

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1

Thursday, March 29th 2012, 4:50pm

Tactical Retreat

just a simple question, does defense count in tactical retreat or is it only fleet?

thanks :)

a2nxtcr4v3r

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2

Thursday, March 29th 2012, 4:52pm

Just fleet.

Night

nezzybaby

Unregistered

3

Saturday, March 31st 2012, 12:24pm

Just fleet.

Night


NO

Defence counts too. Otherwise you'd never be able to attack anyone with a defence.

Actually are you asking if defence retreats? Well no it can't, but when working out if a fleet will flee, you need to work out the amount of res in both the defence and fleet.

khaos

Goonswarm FC

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4

Saturday, March 31st 2012, 1:23pm

to clarify

fleet retreat is only influenced by the defenders fleet points, where cargos count for 25% of their points value defence has no bearing whether or not a defending fleet retreats
khaos - Here to help
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My S-MOD is Goodriddance

*imagines khaos sitting on Leif's lap, dressed in a cat-costume*
wait.....what ?( 8o

nezzybaby

Unregistered

5

Saturday, March 31st 2012, 1:32pm

to clarify

fleet retreat is only influenced by the defenders fleet points, where cargos count for 25% of their points value defence has no bearing whether or not a defending fleet retreats


That didn't clarify for me at all sorry.

Example:

If a player has 5 battleships sat at a planet, his total points value for those is 60*5, 300.

I would therefore be allowed to attack with up to 1500 points worth of fleet without him retreating.

Are you saying that if that was sat on a defence worth 3000 points I could still only use a 1500 point attack fleet if I didn't want him to retreat? This is not how I understand the rule, and in practice does not seem to correlate with what I have experienced.


EDIT: Follow up question, can a defender retreat if they have no deut?

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "nezzybaby" (Mar 31st 2012, 1:40pm)


marv144

Unregistered

6

Saturday, March 31st 2012, 1:41pm

Warships and defense count with 100%.
Civil ships count with 25%.

Edit: Follow up answer: defender can't retreat if there is not enough deut on that planet/moon.

khaos

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7

Saturday, March 31st 2012, 2:43pm

defence doesnt count towards retreat so yes you would be allowed to attack with up to 1500 points however sometimes it is weird so to be safe i would limit it to 1300 / 1400
khaos - Here to help
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My S-MOD is Goodriddance

*imagines khaos sitting on Leif's lap, dressed in a cat-costume*
wait.....what ?( 8o

nezzybaby

Unregistered

8

Saturday, March 31st 2012, 2:52pm

You are wrong.

I have just made a HoF on someone, I calculated the amount of fleet that would be 5:1 against fleet and defence, and the amount that would be 5:1 against just fleet. I launched with the amount for 5:1 against fleet only and the combat report said the following:

Tactical retreat 1 : 2.64

This means defence definitely IS included. I'll post it in the HoF Section of uni Jupiter in about 20min once the DF is secured and you can check for yourself.

http://board.ogame.org/board706-game/board756-universe-jupiter/board759-hof-jupiter/728800-nezzybaby-bunnies-vs-pauluk-tng-td-7-45-m/

Total fleet cost from me: 16,265
Total fleet of defender: 3400.75
Total fleet+ defence of defender: 6177.75

(Attacker fleet) / (defender fleet) = 4.78
(Attacker fleet) / (defender fleet + defence) = 2.63

As you say there is some discrepancy there, but the value is a lot closer to that with defence included than without.

It seems if you count the colony ship as zero then the value gets closer to 2.64, also taking the solar sats out. Hard to say.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "nezzybaby" (Mar 31st 2012, 3:10pm)


IMNVS

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9

Saturday, March 31st 2012, 3:08pm

That may be a display error, showing the full ratio when they should only be showing the fleet-fleet ratio... or we've been misinformed. GF has told us...

...100% fleets and defense, 50% civil ships is for Military Score only.
...that when determining if a fleet escapes, defence is not counted in any way (I know they told us this because I objected to it then and have since too).

Have you experimented with this to see if you could get a ratio that would be above 5:1 in your favour when just ships are looked at but below 5:1 when defence is counted too?

Did you verify that the target was still in newbie protection? (Remember, fleets only escape while you have that protection.)
:huh: /do͞oSH/ :huh:
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nezzybaby

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10

Saturday, March 31st 2012, 3:12pm

That may be a display error, showing the full ratio when they should only be showing the fleet-fleet ratio... or we've been misinformed. GF has told us...

...100% fleets and defense, 50% civil ships is for Military Score only.
...that when determining if a fleet escapes, defence is not counted in any way (I know they told us this because I objected to it then and have since too).

Have you experimented with this to see if you could get a ratio that would be above 5:1 in your favour when just ships are looked at but below 5:1 when defence is counted too?

Did you verify that the target was still in newbie protection? (Remember, fleets only escape while you have that protection.)



He was in noob protection. On more than one occasion I have sent fleets which would be too big for killing fleet alone, I have always calculated with defence. If defence wasn't included then people would not need to fleetsave until out of noob protection, they'd just need enough defence to ensure their fleet retreated.

IMNVS

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11

Saturday, March 31st 2012, 3:21pm

I agree, which was my objection... and they may have listened to that objection. Arguing about it won't change anything. Go get more data in support of this or wait for the staff here to get a response from GF to clarify this. It's really that simple. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying what we were told conflicts with what you're saying. That's it.
:huh: /do͞oSH/ :huh:
1. (n) shower
2. (v) take a shower

:nono "Honour: If you need it defined, you don't have it." - Ron Swanson :nono

civil - adj - courteous and polite
insult - verb - speak to or treat with disrespect or scornful abuse
source: google.com

marv144

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12

Saturday, March 31st 2012, 3:21pm

Defence to escape ratio was introduced without any official notice. I remember that we noticed it while public test server was still on 3.0, and were wondering why there was no notification about that.

So, once again:

Warships and defense count with 100%.
Civil ships count with 25%.

As for military score:

Warships and defense count with 100%.
Civil ships count with 50%.

Great King Pat

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13

Monday, April 2nd 2012, 12:41pm

Defence is definitely INCLUDED in Tactical Retreat Ratio calculations and it is nothing short of PATHETIC to say not only was their no notification or update of any sort from GameForge but that none of the staff seem to have any clue whatsoever & have been goin around telling countless players the contrary with weeks now. :complaingrumble:

Total HoFs Won - 567
HoFs Lost - 93
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Advanced - 194
Super Advanced - 38
Top 10s - 20
.Org Top 10s - Lost Count
RIPs Killed - 3,908
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Games Ended - Countless

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Great King Pat" (Apr 2nd 2012, 12:48pm)


Paci

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14

Monday, April 2nd 2012, 1:09pm

I have checked it now and it is true, defense is calculated. However this will be corrected again with the 4.0 version, so it was not planned change (this is reason for no announcment about it) but a bug which came with 3.1.4.

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hourglass

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15

Monday, April 2nd 2012, 4:57pm

Which version can we expect to see it removed entirely, since it's a complete and unmitigated disaster?

IMNVS

say it out loud speak the truth

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16

Monday, April 2nd 2012, 7:54pm

As stated, ver 4.0 will see it fixed. Possibly earlier, but it's unlikely that much will be done to ver 3.x.x as they prepare for ver 4.0.
:huh: /do͞oSH/ :huh:
1. (n) shower
2. (v) take a shower

:nono "Honour: If you need it defined, you don't have it." - Ron Swanson :nono

civil - adj - courteous and polite
insult - verb - speak to or treat with disrespect or scornful abuse
source: google.com