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Marx

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1

Saturday, November 22nd 2008, 3:59am

Abraham K. Biggs ~ 19-year-old Commits Suicide on Justin.tv

To All,

Many of you probably haven't heard about this yet, but it's a shocking and deeply disturbing catastrophe. For those of you that are already aware of this news, I truly hope that you have had a revelation. Unfortunately, I'm also certain that some will enjoy this news for the LOLz (if thats you, you're one sick puppy). At the bottom of this post I'll include the link to a news article so you can read it in detail.

The basics of what happened:
  • Biggs posts in an online forum (bodybuilder site) that he will kill himself
  • Users including forum moderators encourage him to do it
  • Biggs posts a suicide note which links readers to his live streaming video
  • Users log into the streaming video on justin.tv and continue to encourage his suicide
  • Biggs ingests several pills and lays down
  • Users make jokes, laugh, and criticize Biggs as he dies, live on the internet
  • Biggs stops breathing, live on justin.tv
  • A few concerned users begin contacting Broward County, FL USA police
  • Police arrive, and an excited crowed laughs as police check for signs of life
  • Moments later, users begin a desperate attempt to hide the fact they pushed Biggs to kill himself
  • bodybuilder forum deletes post


This is a screen capture of users laughing while police check for life signs

In all honesty, this event has shaken me, as both a forum user and Super Moderator. I'm also deeply disgusted by the actions of individuals who encouraged this young man to take his own life. Noone stopped to think if maybe he was serious, and we aren't talking about just a few bad apples, A LOT of people encouraged this event to take place. I find myself wondering how we, as civilized and cultured people, could become so evil and heartless.

When we sign online, at what point do we shed our humanity? Why did so many people find this entertaining? Who the hell could laugh as a young man killed himself?

Answers to these questions escape me, and will probably haunt me for weeks to come. As a Florida resident myself, this hits especially close to home. I hope with all my might that noone in this community would EVER provoke someone to take their own life. Please, for the love of whatever deity you believe in, remember this the next time someone threatens suicide.

Link To Article Here

TheLordReaper

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Saturday, November 22nd 2008, 5:23am

RE: Abraham K. Biggs ~ 19-year-old Commits Suicide on Justin.tv

The worst thing is reading some of the posts there, how unbelievable unsympathetic those people are. I know that when anonymous people say and do things they wouldn't face to face with someone, but damn..even for the internet that place was cold.

Sucks for the kid too-though obviously something was amiss with him.

King Of Kings

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Saturday, November 22nd 2008, 12:48pm

Ive read about this like 2 days ago, read the several topics on those different sites..and imo some people there should be charged for murder.


Yes its internet etc, but still, some things you just dont do/say, called having morals and decency.

Ive seen more pictures and he was on the bed for several hours, lifeless, yet still some question if it was real. How dumb.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "King Of Kings" (Nov 22nd 2008, 12:55pm)


vdysan

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Saturday, November 22nd 2008, 5:13pm

well i think that this is a tragedy and that it goes without saying but to be honest how many of us would think that something like that is real, i mean why would anyone kill him self on the internet? until now i didnt think anyone could be that troubled...

i dont want to end up as the one defending those that were telling him to do it coz i think that was wrong but if you saw some dude drink something (and that something could be harmless) and then just lie on the bed, would you think its real? i know i would not, i know i would think that thats just one more idiot that wants to be star so he decided to do something stupid on the internet (thats would not be the first video of that kind).

now, i dont know what was exacly happening then and was it people not beliveing that whats happening is really suicide or was it demented people talking someone in to suicide for their own pleasure but that is what will show if those people should be punished or not, and depending on that, my opinion will be eider to agree that they should be punished or that they were just some unlucky people that had to see something like that and live with it for the rest of their lifes...

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "vdysan" (Nov 22nd 2008, 5:16pm)


King Of Kings

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Saturday, November 22nd 2008, 5:42pm

This wasnt the first time it happened, like a year ago a man hanged himself during a webcast.

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Saturday, November 22nd 2008, 5:58pm

Amazing what people can do for a few hours of fame. I wouldn't call it a tragedy though, rather survival of the fittest.




There on a MMORPG forum some dork asks Nano's bro if Nano dropped any good loot when he died. Empathy is lost up on many people and can't expect everyone on the internet to be sensitive etc. AND one shouldn't take into account if people he never met before wanted him to exist or not, it's a very stupid thing to let them have their say on this to begin with.

I don't pity this guy, there are people in muc worse cases who deserve the little amount of pity in me.

Another one bites the dust when someone makes mockery of her in American Idol contest. Jesus i don't even know how to name it. I can only hope the movie "Idiocracy" doesn't come true.

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Saturday, November 22nd 2008, 6:36pm

Bah. One less person on a crowded planet. It was his plan. He went through with it. His choice. The world is a better place now. Good for him. I don't think many people that watched really thought it was real. Not because of "the sickness" but because of possible legal reprocussions.

I don't really understand why people should be expected to care about whiney strangers. Most people that threaten suicide are just talking. They are also annoying. Do it or shut up. I've been there myself, with the gun in my mouth. I changed my mind (I didn't want my mom to suffer for it and perhaps I was a coward) and only told people afterward and got help, mainly from myself. Why did I not blab and attention whore before hand? Because I was serious about doing it, not about being all "save me, make me feel worth something". This guy did both, and that seems odd to me. I've egged people (pseudosuicidalist assholes) on the same way in chat rooms before and honestly hope a few of those people did it, but I doubt it. They just kept wanting attention and getting it. People fed the trolls. The only time such behavior seems sick is if someone actually knew the person and still urged him to do it. Otherwise, good riddance. Suicide seems to me to be the act of a selfish, weakminded person in most cases. There are exceptions, but those exceptions do it for a cause, not for attention or pity parties.

I only wish he'd done something a bit more dramatic than pills. Something more certain. Had he fudged it he would have cost someone a lot in hospital care. I'm sure it was also incredibly boring to watch except for the rude comments made by viewers. He could have at least done something good with his death as well. Kill a few politicians, blow his brains out in the ER with a donor card, etc.

Pleasure is good. Pain is bad. Death is the end of both and is therefore neutral, at least to the person it happens to. If people weight their future pain against their future pleasure and find that their life will be less than neutral, why shouldn't they do it. Why do we assume that every single life is worth living?

Yes, the world is an uncaring place filled with uncaring people. That shouldn't be surprising to any one. The world is not disney creation. There are even people who would have assisted him in doing it just for the enjoyment. This in my mind crosses the decency line, but it should never surprise someone.

I may sound like an callous jerk, but if more people were there wouldn't be so many online pity parties. People would just off themselves, or do whatever they need to do to get by, which is how it should be. Giving in is a bit like supplying crack to an addict. Cut them off. Telling them to just do it is the way you let them know they are cut off. Then they can deal with their pain without dragging it out for the rest of their lives, whether that's for years or for minutes. The added side effect is they don't go around dragging other people down. I care, just not about everyone to the same degree.
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Saturday, November 22nd 2008, 7:58pm

Quoted

Originally posted by King Of Kings
This wasnt the first time it happened, like a year ago a man hanged himself during a webcast.


Not to mention the infamous MySpace suicide ;)

Seriously, I want to be really honest here. How many cases of people committing suicide over the internet are there? Not many. How many people CLAIM to be committing suicide over the internet? Over 9000, seriously, I see them everywhere. This whole "emo" scene essentially promotes feigning suicide for attention. So why should a few select cases come to the foreground? Why not actual, intended murder, be broadcasted by the news, instead of one or two idiots who didn't realise they were being "trolled"?

Maybe I'm just desensitized, but I've been suicidally depressed before. Summer 2006 to be precise. In fact, I was on OGame at that time, go and ask some people who knew me online back then if they knew this. Odds are, they didn't. Why? Because I went and saw someone about it! It's just like Apep said, most people who claim on forums, chatrooms and whatnot that they're going to go kill themselves most probably won't - it's 99.9% of the time just an act to garner attention.
I've told many a person to just go ahead with it, why? Because I know they're just feigning it. 100% of those people have come back. Unless resurrection is real, they didn't do it. One such case actually happened here on OGame.org in May this year, with a user whose name I shall not mention. ;)

Attention-seeking is an appalling new craze this century, and I'll be totally honest, it sickens me to death. It makes a mockery of those with actual problems; those who really ARE in those situations. I'm sorry if I seem totally harsh and out of bounds, and I don't condone what they did at all, but you have to realise that levels of selective empathy are needed if we actually want to give our help and support to those who truly need it, not to some attention-whore.

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Saturday, November 22nd 2008, 8:59pm

On exactly which kind of forums or chat rooms people do suicidal talk? lol.

Oh man people should grow up and be able to handle life or just vanish like this poor dude supposedly did. Everyone has prolly felt depressed at one point in their lives but this is just too much.

osiris

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Saturday, November 22nd 2008, 9:14pm

there are alot of people that may feel suicidal :O. and as proven by the above posts people act differently, some may want to tell others that they are feeling down, depressed. and others may want to deal with the situation by themselves. If you are feeling suicidal there is no correct way of dealing with it. Someone who talks about it may be extroverted and wish to seek attention. unlike someone who is introverted may want to keep to themselves and figure life out by themselves.

someone who uses the internet to seek attention is usually someone who likes to keep anonymous, but in this case he uses a webcam to show people how serious he was. I can only think that he was acting very irrationally. As it is strange why someone would perform a suicide infront of strangers. It could be possible that the boy could not relate to any one else, but the people on the internet.

One thing that is clear is that no one should try to resolve their issues by going onto the internet . Because the dumb people outweigh the normal people

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Saturday, November 22nd 2008, 9:25pm

Quoted

Originally posted by zizou
Oh man people should grow up and be able to handle life or just vanish like this poor dude supposedly did.


I'm wondering why you say supposedly, it's been on the news, which is typical media trying to scare monger, but still, if he wasn't dead the news wouldn't be talking to his family (where were they throughout all this anyway)

Quoted

Originally posted by osiris
If you are feeling suicidal there is no correct way of dealing with it.


There are many wrong ways to deal with it, a forum is definitely one.

Quoted

someone who uses the internet to seek attention is usually someone who likes to keep anonymous, but in this case he uses a webcam to show people how serious he was.[/quote

He'd tried it before I think?


I think it's messed up for them to encourage him, I don't care if it's the internet. I remember reading about a guy who jumped from a high car park, and people on the ground had encouraged him to do so. It is no different, and both cases are disgusting.

If you don't care, you wouldn't encourage him.

Quoted

One thing that is clear is that no one should try to resolve their issues by going onto the internet . Because the dumb people outweigh the normal people


It's not even that necessarily, it's a crowd like mentality, everyone is anonymous on the internet, so can say, or do what they want. I mean there are many websites, including this one, with people saying things they'd never say face to face.

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Saturday, November 22nd 2008, 10:52pm

i said supposedly because i didn't see it on a prominent source and didn't bother to check. But if you say so... RIP Abby boy :rolleyes:

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Sunday, November 23rd 2008, 12:25am

Justin.tv is great for streaming football games.

Hope this doesn't affect it in anyway, I'd hate to lose the ability to watch my club :\


Oh, and the whole thing is disgraceful. I regular /b/, and usually thissort of thing is seen as funny (the baiting). Not as funny when it happens.

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BritAbroad

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Sunday, November 23rd 2008, 1:48am

I have been "involved" in some shape or form in four attempted suicides. That sounds wrong, I wasn't egging on, or assisting, but I'll explain.

Two were when people jumped in front of trains that I happened to be travelling on (in the second I had the misfortune of actually seeing it happen due to my seat's positioning and the curvature of the train as it followed a corner in the track - its still ingrained in my mind now, very nasty). In both of these cases, fairly obviously, the person was killed.
These were "surprises". They were in secluded locations away from any people, and there was no warning to the driver or anyone else, and the person just jumped from a bridge or the side. There was no build-up, no attention seeking. These were people who definitely wanted to end it. That's sad, and not to mention very selfish - traumatised train crew and passengers, distraught families and friends... Nine times out of ten, the family and friends didn't even know the person was depressed. They had serious issues and perhaps didn't feel right or "connected". These people need identifying and helping. Unfortunately, I cannot suggest how.


The third was when a person stood on the edge of a bridge over the line at a crowded railway station that I was standing on. He made loud noises and threats, so obviously staff at the station stopped the trains and cut the power, thus meaning the person would most probably not die, just break his legs.
He was attention seeking. He was eventually talked down by a policeman and taken into (protective?) custody. During this incident, for a whole 90 minutes, he had three police units, an ambulance, and a fire crew and a busy station as his captive audience for him to spout about all of his problems. Not to mention the fact that he stopped all rail movements in and out of a busy mainline station, so that he could continue this. That's got to be an ego trip, hasn't it? I think that if he really wanted to end it all, he'd have gone further up the line, out of built up areas, waited for the train to come to him and then stepped in front of it. This was more of a "look at me, I really need help". He may well have had issues, but instead of being able to talk naturally about them, for some reason, he felt the need to try and make people force him to. Intriguing.



As for this character, I'm not sure. A bit of background reading comes up with this:


Quoted

On Wednesday he went on the bodybuilding.com forum and detailed the amount of drugs he was going to take. The moderators of the forum reportedly did not take him seriously because of his past threats and other forum members egged him on. “You want to kill yourself?” one said. “Do it, do the world a favour and stop wasting our time with your mindless self-pity.”



I don't know if I'd react differently face to face or over the internet, or if I ever were in the situation, but in my head at least, I'd probably be saying what is quoted there, and I know that makes me sound a bad person. That is my view, and seems to match some people who already have posted in this thread. People who threaten suicide tend not to actually want to go through with it, just want attention and to be made to feel better. Maybe these people aren't evil and heartless, just trying to knock some sense into the lad. Maybe they are sick enough to want to watch, but I don't think everyone would be like that, I know I'm not.
Maybe Abraham Biggs expected people to be sympathetic and caring, without him having to go through with it. He didn't find sympathy to satisfy his craving and just decided to go through with it on the spur of the moment thing. A two fingers or flicking of the bird to everyone who didn't give him attention, to make them feel bad. Or maybe he felt he could only keep these people's attention by going through with it. Who knows?





The fourth suicide I was "involved" in, I have deliberately neglected to mention earlier. It involved me in more of a professional capacity, i.e: the person threatened suicide to try and prevent me from completing one of my routine duties. In that respect its a bit different, which is why I kept it out till the end. He didn't go through with it, so I suppose it was attention-seeking in that he was trying to draw attention to the possible "injustice" that I was about to commit, because of my work.

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Sunday, November 23rd 2008, 1:51am

Quoted

Originally posted by BritAbroad
I have been "involved" in some shape or form in four attempted suicides. That sounds wrong, I wasn't egging on, or assisting, but I'll explain.

Two were when people jumped in front of trains that I happened to be travelling on (in the second I had the misfortune of actually seeing it happen due to my seat's positioning and the curvature of the train as it followed a corner in the track - its still ingrained in my mind now, very nasty). In both of these cases, fairly obviously, the person was killed.
These were "surprises". They were in secluded locations away from any people, and there was no warning to the driver or anyone else, and the person just jumped from a bridge or the side. There was no build-up, no attention seeking. These were people who definitely wanted to end it. That's sad, and not to mention very selfish - traumatised train crew and passengers, distraught families and friends... Nine times out of ten, the family and friends didn't even know the person was depressed. They had serious issues and perhaps didn't feel right or "connected". These people need identifying and helping. Unfortunately, I cannot suggest how.


The third was when a person stood on the edge of a bridge over the line at a crowded railway station that I was standing on. He made loud noises and threats, so obviously staff at the station stopped the trains and cut the power, thus meaning the person would most probably not die, just break his legs.
He was attention seeking. He was eventually talked down by a policeman and taken into (protective?) custody. During this incident, for a whole 90 minutes, he had three police units, an ambulance, and a fire crew and a busy station as his captive audience for him to spout about all of his problems. Not to mention the fact that he stopped all rail movements in and out of a busy mainline station, so that he could continue this. That's got to be an ego trip, hasn't it? I think that if he really wanted to end it all, he'd have gone further up the line, out of built up areas, waited for the train to come to him and then stepped in front of it. This was more of a "look at me, I really need help". He may well have had issues, but instead of being able to talk naturally about them, for some reason, he felt the need to try and make people force him to. Intriguing.



As for this character, I'm not sure. A bit of background reading comes up with this:


Quoted

On Wednesday he went on the bodybuilding.com forum and detailed the amount of drugs he was going to take. The moderators of the forum reportedly did not take him seriously because of his past threats and other forum members egged him on. “You want to kill yourself?” one said. “Do it, do the world a favour and stop wasting our time with your mindless self-pity.”



I don't know if I'd react differently face to face or over the internet, or if I ever were in the situation, but in my head at least, I'd probably be saying what is quoted there, and I know that makes me sound a bad person. That is my view, and seems to match some people who already have posted in this thread. People who threaten suicide tend not to actually want to go through with it, just want attention and to be made to feel better. Maybe these people aren't evil and heartless, just trying to knock some sense into the lad. Maybe they are sick enough to want to watch, but I don't think everyone would be like that, I know I'm not.
Maybe Abraham Biggs expected people to be sympathetic and caring, without him having to go through with it. He didn't find sympathy to satisfy his craving and just decided to go through with it on the spur of the moment thing. A two fingers or flicking of the bird to everyone who didn't give him attention, to make them feel bad. Or maybe he felt he could only keep these people's attention by going through with it. Who knows?





The fourth suicide I was "involved" in, I have deliberately neglected to mention earlier. It involved me in more of a professional capacity, i.e: the person threatened suicide to try and prevent me from completing one of my routine duties. In that respect its a bit different, which is why I kept it out till the end. He didn't go through with it, so I suppose it was attention-seeking in that he was trying to draw attention to the possible "injustice" that I was about to commit, because of my work.


See that first part of the post open the whole new area of euthanasia.

Quoted


[09:50] <@Cass|Vacations> Hm bibob tired me out today - so I am a bit slee.py

BritAbroad

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Sunday, November 23rd 2008, 1:56am

Quoted

Originally posted by the nam

See that first part of the post open the whole new area of euthanasia.



A very grey area, and one thats probably very off-topic, I apologise in advance.

I'm against legalising that, for the reasons that are probably for another thread.

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Sunday, November 23rd 2008, 1:07pm

Quoted

Originally posted by BritAbroad
They had serious issues and perhaps didn't feel right or "connected". These people need identifying and helping. Unfortunately, I cannot suggest how.


Pharmaceutical doses of amphetamines or MDMA, my friend. Desoxyn for that matter is a wonder drug.

Endless feelings of connection, belonging, butt attachment to the world, love, caring, empathy, ecstasy, rightness etc, etc, etc. And it's not fake :) Those drugs should be marketed in pharm doses, seriously. World would be a much better place.

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Sunday, November 23rd 2008, 2:14pm

Giving amphetamine to manic depressives is one of the worst ideas I've ever heard. I've self-medicated that way before and it was bad decision making on my part. Sure, it seems to do the job at first, then come the reverse swings. Oh and when mania hits while under the influence? Mania easily starts to cause dissociative effects instead of just affective. I'm not against people making recreational use of it depending on their mental type, but using it to control depression is epic phail. Often a lifestyle change is the single best method of dealing with it.
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Sunday, November 23rd 2008, 2:46pm

i just cant believe that people would joke about some1 killing themselvs and laugh about is its horrible
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Sunday, November 23rd 2008, 3:00pm

Manic depressive people tend to have reverse swings anyway lol, that's why they are manic to begin with, it has cycles and stuff, you would have them anyway. It's not the medications fault, it's you trying to self medicate without even knowing what you suffer from.

Yeah, uppers tend to magnify the effects of mania, bipolar, schizophrenia or any kind of "unstable" mental condition, there are anti-psychotics or other medications for that, i take depression alone as a stable state of mood, major depressive disorders are another story. One type of drug cannot be prescribed for all kinds of mental disorders because there are a bunch of neurotransmitters that stabilize the mood and then some hormones and neurotransmitters that have peripheral effects like norepinephrine and playing with each one creates another mood.

Uppers work magic to help perceived helplessness, disinterest, anhedonia, people who fail to express their emotions or to make bonds or feel connected, people who have attention deficit disorders ( Just like this Abraham guy :P ) etc, etc. Believe me there are millions of such people who would have had a whole new life under uppers in pharmaceutical doses. I know a lot of such peeps who changed 360 degrees and stopped sucking when on them.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "zizou" (Nov 23rd 2008, 3:14pm)