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501st

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1

Wednesday, October 8th 2008, 3:22am

USA will fall

Well,we started studying Greece and Rome in my world History class for about a week now,and i've come up with the assumption:

The USA will fall.

Some of you may be saying,"Get a life dude,it'll never happen" Or "your f---ing crazy." Or some odd thing like that,but it's true. America will one day fall,and no longer be a "free" country. One of my reasons for this is that we are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too comparable to Rome. For one, we have an outstanding military. Basicly,what we're doing in the middle east,is a conquest. We set up a "democracy" in Iraq. That may be all fine and dandy,but WE did it. That means we are teaching them our ideas and policies,and they aren't creating their own. After we pull out of Iraq,of course a small percentage will stay behind to "keep the peace" or what ever BS reason the next president will give. Behind the lies though,is the fact that if they do something that we don't like, we can take the leader(s) out. Now,you may be wondering what that has to do with an american conquest,and it has everything to do with it. It just means that we're running the country,and not the Iraqi's,so it's just another territory for the USA. That marks the biggining of the American empire. After this is done,depending on if we win or lose in Afgahnistan,the same thing will happen.

Now,most,if not all, of our society is based off of Rome. American football= Gladiators, The President is the King,with 3 executive branches to devide up power,or 50 states= Roman city states,Powerful military and the power to expand it= Roman empire's army and strength,we have counsels and senates,just as the roman's did. Lastly,the american people have very little say in what goes on in the country. So! That all being said, eventually our military will become less exhausted as some troops pull out of the middle east as time goes on,along with tour rotations. And possibly,as our need for oil and foreign supplies increases,we will be more needy and in time,will do drastic things to aquire what we need and/or may want. As the possible fighting progresses,somebody (Russia,Great Britian,China,etc.) will decide that "these american bi---es are going down" and will possibly join forces to rebel american forces. As time goes on,America will generate huge losses,and will be forced to lose ground,thus shrinking the empire. Now wether opr not people or the government decide that it's time for them to step up to the plate,America will devide into bigger seperate regions and go their own way just as Rome devided into east and west. With more corruption and weackness going on,some higher power will decide that this is their chance to invade,and do so,ultimately destroying the remnents of the USA.

Thus marking the end of the USA. Now,more or less would problably happen,but if you compare ancient Rome to modern day USA,you will see an exact comparisan of pretty much everything. History might even be the same,give or take a few things. Wether it would happen in that chronological order,or some things may or maynot happen,the fall of the USA will most likely be that of Ancient Rome's.

Does anyone share the same oppinion? Please,do discuss what you think about this.

mathfreak

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2

Wednesday, October 8th 2008, 3:38am

1. You have a wild imagination.
2. New energy sources (we receive more energy from the sun than we'll ever need.....and that's just from the light that's hitting the earth).
3. #3 has been removed because it'll take too much typing for me to explain. But never mind, the most important point is #4. Everything before #4 is useless (imo of course).
4. What will bring the USA down is our wild human nature, not the type of government we have. Greed will corrupt everything. In the end, it's all about who can resist greed the best. The people who can resist it the best, in my opinion, are the most educated people.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "mathfreak" (Oct 8th 2008, 3:39am)


bikerpunk40

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Wednesday, October 8th 2008, 3:53am

i agree mathfreak we may be like the romans but we cont have evry country hitting us from all sides like the romans did we dont mass murder people like they did and we dont watch people cut themselves up in football the onl reason the roman empire fell is because everything they did was against human nature


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Greyhawk

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Wednesday, October 8th 2008, 4:53am

It's an interesting theory in a general concept but that is really where the comparisons end. The freedoms granted to us by the constitution are unlike any the world had ever seen to date. The romans in thier day did not have near the freedoms we do and I do believe that is what separates us from that analogy. I'd hate to say it but the people that believe they have no say in thier government have not participated in the process of it at all. And I'm not talking even on the national level, this participation starts at your local level and works up. The more informed a person is the stronger he is pure and simple.

And the comparison showing our 'token' forces would take out anyone in that country (thier leadership if they did something we didn't like) is simply laughable. I want you to point out in any other country where that has happened and keep in mind how many countries we have troops in.

Sergei Brusilov

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5

Wednesday, October 8th 2008, 5:28am

What you just said about the US, you can say about most other countries such as Russia, China, France, the UK etc...

You just molded what you know about Rome to the US to fit your argument. I could make the same argument for any powerful country on this planet.

yartrebo

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6

Wednesday, October 8th 2008, 5:37am

I do believe that the US will fall, and probably sooner rather than later.

Much like Rome (and other empires of yore), the US has an increasingly militarized society. We have a culture of corruption and self-service for the rich and distraction for the masses (aka bread and circuses). We also have a faltering economic base that is saddled by mountains of debt and enormous wealth inequality.

As far as the mass murdering that the Romans did for entertainment goes, they didn't have movies and TV.

Our military has been getting less success recently than in decades past. We're bogged down in Afghanistan and Iraq, and we have little ability to attack anyone else or to defend our colonies (such as Georgia). As much of our reputation abroad comes from fear, not from love, any weaking of our military prestige will embolder others to test our might.

The stage is set for a collapse of historic proportions. Now all that is needed is the spark.

PS: I am from the US.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "yartrebo" (Oct 8th 2008, 5:39am)


Axl Turwalt

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Wednesday, October 8th 2008, 8:10am

In terms of economy I think we will be seeing the still developing countries as the main superpowers a hundred years from now. Countries like China, Brazil and India. They have cheap labour and an economic growth rate that is just staggering.

In terms of military I don't think things will change much for quite a while. That will depend of course how quickly China grows from here on in comparison to the rest of the world. But I think the USA is safe for the next 150 - 200 years.

What intrigues me most is what happens when the European nations merge (we all know it will happen one day). That will throw a real curve ball and I think we will see this new state as the undisputed super power of the world. But Russia definately won't like that. :)

vdysan

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8

Wednesday, October 8th 2008, 11:11am

nothing is forever so usa isnt eider :)

though i dont thing collapse of usa as superpower would end in a way you describe it. there are 2 ways i think.
one is that use just becames weaker, economy less powerfull and people would live with much less safety and money they do now.
other way is spliting, we all know that there was civil war in usa and that could be bases for dividing of usa when financial problems come up coz what usually happens when economy goes down is that people look for someone else to blame, and pliticians are known to exploit that need of blaming someone for bad things so...

Greyhawk

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9

Wednesday, October 8th 2008, 4:32pm

I think the chances that the US has another civil war are alot higher than anything else. The US is still strong economically even with the recent turn of events an militarily.

The way the government has been headed is not a good sign to come and I believe that a civil war will divide the country, which will certainly divide the former US as far as economically and military.

Also good call on how politicians are there as far as 'blaming' the other guy for things going bad. I mean hell, its just like any type of relationship..."It takes two to tango" so one group or the other is not completely at/not at fault. ALL of them are at fault lol.

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Wednesday, October 8th 2008, 4:52pm

Alright this is an Epic Coincidence, because acouple days ago I was reading the paper, and they reckon that in at least 10-20 years, China will have a bigger Navy to USA...
(Just Pointing out WWI...Germany tried to build a bigger Navy then Britain...the uber failed lol :P)

And in a few more years or decades to that, China will have a much stronger army to USA...

But, I'm in Australia...AKA Uber Fail Country hahahaha yes we r failzors, that our old prime minister sucked george bushes balls everyday T_T

But...think about it...I donno much about USA history...but i donno if u guys won the Cold War...u didnt win the Vietnam war...infact u uber failed that one...and u guys seem to be failing in the Afghanistan and Iraq war...mainly because THERE IS NO ENEMY!!! I mean yeh, the Terrorist r totally the enemy...but they arnt like...Germany...or Vietnam...in one spot...not only r they scattered all over Afghanistan and Iraq but all over the world...u guys may have the strongest military force or wateva...

But if another strong country...for example...CHINA...Russia...UK...France...etc etc wanted u destroyed...I believe they could defiantly do it...atm people born between 1970 - 2008...I believe r panzies rofl :P

That includes myself...we havnt been in a actual war like our grandfathers or fathers.
The people in WWI and WWII are better people I believe...they have been through the heartaches and they put people before them...people in the Modern Age, most of us unfortunately like someone said before, put money before other things, like material goods being everything.

Anyways lol, wat I was getting at, is that USA will fall...
The Financial Market, I believe is the first step to the fall of another mighty Empire.

Just my 2 cents, lol :( Soz if i got off topic abit.

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yartrebo

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Wednesday, October 8th 2008, 5:10pm

What history has shown is that many large empires will deny their structural weaknesses and double down in response. At some point, it becomes impossible to maintain the empire, and there is a big crash. The longer and more successful the denial, the worse the crash.

The USA is deep in denial about its weaknesses. We're the country where pessimism is a sin and the US can do no evil because 'God blesses us.' It's hard to predict when the house of cards will collapse, but it inevitably will. Every day that passes leads to more rot on the inside, and the system becomes even less stable.

What will bring us down is endemic corruption and a culture of ignorance and blind optimism. It is my opinion that both have been getting worse.

Jrock

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Wednesday, October 8th 2008, 6:15pm

Nothing last forever, while agree that 501st was mabye fitting things to fit, a little too much he raises a vaild point. The US's economy is on the verge of collapsing, teetering on the edge so to speak, its wasting its military strength and wealth on funding costly wars overseas, while continuing to try to enforce iots will on the rest of the world.
It's wealthy elite has the most influence and power and the poor continue to suffer.
The most accurate paralle to the Roman Empire that can be drawn is that of the transformation of the Republic into a dictatorship and then an Empire: We continue to see everyday the government of the US violating the rights of its own citizens and taking more and more power for itself.
It may still a way off the United States of America, but not long.
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Treize Khushrenada

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Wednesday, October 8th 2008, 6:33pm

I personally don't think the shift from the United States of America will be nearly as dramatic as anyone is making it out to be nor as dramatic as they HOPE it will be.

Sure, countries come and go, and the world will continue to change, but I envision the end of the US not as a fall or collapse (and it will never be an invasion) but more as a shift, much like the European nations have shifted to the community at large, i.e. the EU. I don't think that it's far off to see the formation of more "super" countries and eventually the formations of a one world governing body (not the UN but with actual power and governing responsibilities).

Jrock

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Wednesday, October 8th 2008, 11:05pm

Now first I do not personally hope for the end of the US, i'm just trying to be as realistic as i can.

I got to say I do agree somewhat with Treize. Its still open to many possibilites. For example, the US could end up as two contries (2nd Civil war) but they could end up rejoining after, or some States may Join with say, parts of Canada, and others with parts of Mexico (just throwing it out there as an example), or the United States may form a new 'North American Federation' with canada, mexico, and the central american nations. however its current path, the one set by the bush administration, is one of self-destruction, you can't resonably/logically deny THAT.

But I do have faith in the idea of democracy and we'll just have to see what future politicians hold for the US.

But yours is a little too optimistic Treize. I laughed at:

Quoted

Originally posted by Treize Khushrenada
(and it will never be an invasion)

which is like a teenager saying they can't possibly die yet. believing you are invulnerable is the attitiude that leads to destruction. The rest of the world is changing and saying that there arn't threats out there is when they show up. But paranoia leads to destruction as well... its a delicate balance.

Now when I said its still a way off i meant a with the next century or two, but when I said not long: I meant at most a few centuries.
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Treize Khushrenada

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Wednesday, October 8th 2008, 11:40pm

Well the reason I think this country will never be invaded is number 1 it's geographically near impossible. We are land locked with the exception of Canada and Mexico and I doubt either of those nations would attack us or would allow another foreign power the ability to pass through to our borders. Any kind of air or sea invasion would cost the enemy heavily.

Secondly, Americans are one of the most violent people on the planet, especially in the South. Almost all own guns and know how to use them. If another nation tried to invade it would come down to unprecidented urban and guerila warfare and I see no way in this world an occupying power could hold their position for very long.

501st

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Thursday, October 9th 2008, 12:49am

Coincidence but... Anyone notice how we lost in vietnam because we suck at guerilla warfare,and we're losing in Afgahnistan for the same reason? You can't say we're losing in iraq because we are bringing stability to the region.. Just at very slow incraments. How could anyone say we are losing when Iraq held it's first election in god only knows how long? The next president of the USA will decide if we lose or win in their. Most likely of Obama is in the white house, we will lose because we will come home to early,and everything we set up will collapse like a card house in the wind. If McCain is elected, we will most likely win because he wants to stay in Iraq because he has gone there and seen the progress we have made.

So far, America is in a Recession,most likely headed into a long depression (again...) because nobody can get their heads out of their asses and come together and decide for the better of their own country. Evferybody has their own agenda and wants to do what they wanna do because they have the power to attempt to do so. Which,in the end,the roof of our econemy will buckle,and if somebody doesn't do something about it eventually,the roof will collapse bringing our whole econemic structure down.

If there wasn't so much greed in US polititioner's alone,then maybe we'd be one of the better countries in the world. Why? Because then we wouldn't have people like Bush who's worried about everyone else but ourselves. Then we wouldn;t be worried with the american funded Taliban,or Al Quida. (QUESTION: Didn't we only fund the Taliban because Russia had invaded at the time?)

As time goes on,will the US have to worry about countries like the U.K,Russia,Saudi Arabia,China etc, yes. Eventually america's foundation will collapse,and it would only be a matter of time to grow a pair and invade. if i was Russia,of course i'd be intimidaded by the american missel defence shield. if i was any country for that matter, i'd be afraid of the US because we're able to deploy in a couple of places at once. BUT, our downfall would be in the next 4-8 years if the next president decided to make the biggest mistake Hitler did back in WW2 and deploy forces to 3 fronts. Hitler deployed to the west and south and then to the east to meet Russian forces,which was in time where they met their untimely demise. If America was to deploy to a third country,say Iran or Korea,then i'd be afraid of an invasion because it would have a much bigger chance to suceed because then most of our reserve forces would be gone too.

Treize Khushrenada

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Thursday, October 9th 2008, 3:14am

American Revolution anyone? The tactics the militia's used in that war were guerilla tactics, we pioneered it. It's always easier for those on their home terf to wage guerilla warfare, and the US would not fall to a foreign power for that reason. Besides, I think our leaders would nuke the opposing country before they ever took our shores.

Godfather8769

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Thursday, October 9th 2008, 4:15am

Talk about having a flair for the dramatic, geez. As one poster already said, you can take out America and insert any powerful country into that equation, thus making your argument very weak. Another point to add is that while we do have enemies, we also have very capable and very intelligent allies. Meaning they know who butters there bread, and they will fight to keep things at status quo. England and Israel will be loyal to the end, you could throw Canada in that same pot too. While it is in the Japanese's nature to be sneaky, I think they know that having the U.S. as an ally is a mutually beneficial relationship, and wouldn't be dumb enough to make a move.

This war is more about the fall of the Ottoman Empire, and the Muslims being pissed off that Christianity won out. Obviously there are more variables involved, but those are the 2 main ones. As Treize said, there will never be a world where the U.S. or some form of it doesn't exist. Because if "super" countries are in our future, then you can be pretty sure that we will be the one's leading the way.

yartrebo

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19

Thursday, October 9th 2008, 4:42am

Quoted

England and Israel will be loyal to the end, you could throw Canada in that same pot too. While it is in the Japanese's nature to be sneaky, I think they know that having the U.S. as an ally is a mutually beneficial relationship, and wouldn't be dumb enough to make a move.


So long as we maintain our power, they'll stay behind us, but watch out if we lose our power. The benefit for Canada, Israel, and Japan is dependent on the US importing many goods (Canada, Japan) or a healthy military combined with anti-Arab sentiments (Israel). I'm not sure why the UK supports us, as I don't see what they get in return except for domestic criticism and a larger budget deficit.

smoking_panda

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Thursday, October 9th 2008, 8:54am

The U.S's classification as a super power is safe for at least another 50 to 100 years. Any kind of significant threat to the US as a country will not happen in our lifetime.