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Gilgamesh

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Wednesday, March 14th 2012, 7:10pm

You never learn do you? How many times there have to be said that you know and understand NOTHING of gods words. All you knowledge comes from dusty books of fairly tales! And STOP PICTURING DEVIL as some kind of a evil being wandering the earth and shitting there and here!!
You are truly lost in fog of fake images of how this world is.

Furthermore I cant see why robos topic is hard to understand for you, it is really simple actually but oh it seems that you mind really are blocking everything that confronts you childish point of view.

"Its not a hard thing for me to fathom that we could have free will to make all of our own decisions and God to for know the outcome. Because he does and we do. " Tell me how did you destroy or hide you logic away? Because how can we have a free will and jet he knows all outcomes? Oh well if he is ALL POWERFULL than yes he could know... But than why would he punish us for "evil" things that we do? Its like if I give a big and really heavy Vase to a small kid than I can easily predict that he will drop it and it will be ruined but than why would I punish the kid if I have predicted the outcome and its actually my own fault that the vase is ruined!

See you logic does not fit, you arguments are based of fairly tales, your believes are fakes that have been created to control societies!

So in the end you wasting you live for searching meaning and truth in a lie. That is a very sad exsistance that to many people have chosen. Does human being really so fragile in thier minds than they need TO KNOW the meaning of their lives? So pathetic and disgusting.



Robo

Great points man. You could even further expand on this by looking at the book of Job. Although i feel I have a very good grasp on Gods word and understand alot of it, some things like what you have presented are hard to understand.

The facts are that satan is real. He does roam the earth and he does get involved. He is the ruler of the cosmos and ruler of the earth. It is important to understand also that the cosmos,the earth,satan.and we in our sinful state are independent of God. Not out of Gods plan but still independent of him. God is omnipotent of course as well as omnipresent and omniscient.

So yes God could deal with em and the bible teaches that he will. But only in his own time. Why he is waiting I do not know. I understand his word but not his mind. I dont know why things must be done the way they are. One day i will know

There are many things to ponder. disease, violence, sickness or death in children, why is evil even here at all.? so many thing I do not understand. So many things I wish I did understand.

Sorry I cant be a better help robo but your topic is one that is difficult to understand. It does nothing to my faith because although satan does rule the world and the things that are independent of God,I am not so he does not rule me.

Your chart looks at the same things. It also touches sorta on predestination which is a whole different thing. I try to simplify it really. Its not a hard thing for me to fathom that we could have free will to make all of our own decisions and God to for know the outcome. Because he does and we do.

Again sorry i cant be a better help with the topic. But i hope some of the things i said make sense to you
Iskandar the King of Conquerors

"Glory lies beyond the horizon. Challenge it because you know you cannot reach it. Speak of conquest and make it real." -

Gilgamesh the King of Heroes


All dreams must disappear when the dreamer wakes. Every last one of them."

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Wednesday, March 14th 2012, 7:28pm

Gilgamesh. You are quite an angry person arent you. Well you wont provoke me sir. I tend to save alley talk for the alley . But you did actually in your rant and name calling say something of worthy of a retort.

Quoted

your believes are fakes that have been created to control societies!


And yet our society in not controlled by believers. quite the contrary actually.

Ill tell you a quick funny story. When I adopted a son i was in court for the finalization of the adoption. I was told to raise my right hand and I did.
I was then asked to repeat after the judge and he said do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
So i looked at him and waited for the rest. and we looked at each other for a 30 seconds and finally he said. Well? and I said umm who am I swearing to?

So he rolled his eyes and of course i had to say the words without actually swearing to anyone because ....my friend.... in a society that is controlled by believers we are not allowed to have a God in court.Or in schools, or really anywhere outside of a church building.. make perfect sense to me. :youcrazy:

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Wednesday, March 14th 2012, 8:21pm

Gilgamesh. You are quite an angry person arent you.
I believe the term is militant atheist.

Here is a quote directly from me "atheism is the reserve of the intelligent."

Can i ask, do you follow the bible for moral guidance, for example, adultery is a sin, homosexuality is wrong etc etc?
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Wednesday, March 14th 2012, 8:33pm

Gilgamesh. You are quite an angry person arent you.
I believe the term is militant atheist.

Here is a quote directly from me "atheism is the reserve of the intelligent."

Can i ask, do you follow the bible for moral guidance, for example, adultery is a sin, homosexuality is wrong etc etc?


Being a militant athiest is what you can say, Ill say different but like i said alley talk is better spoken in an alley not from a desk.

to answer your question. I read the bible because it interests me. I believe what the bible says although i cant explain everything in it, nobody can.

moral guidance? well the bible does teach one about morality. Do I think adultery is wrong? I do and homosexuality as well however Homosexuality and adultery to me is no more wrong than an other thing we do. If a person sins a person sins.

Gilgamesh

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Wednesday, March 14th 2012, 9:52pm

AlexDelarge "yet our society in not controlled by believers. quite the contrary actually" . If our society was controlled by religious fanatics than a lot people would suffer, like homosexual, non religious and many other groups. So thanks "god" that such people not in charge.
Iskandar the King of Conquerors

"Glory lies beyond the horizon. Challenge it because you know you cannot reach it. Speak of conquest and make it real." -

Gilgamesh the King of Heroes


All dreams must disappear when the dreamer wakes. Every last one of them."

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Wednesday, March 14th 2012, 10:12pm

general question to Alexdelarge, what type of christian would you say you are? Evangelical, penticostal, protestant, catholic? Again just out of curiosity of your views.
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Wednesday, March 14th 2012, 10:42pm

general question to Alexdelarge, what type of christian would you say you are? Evangelical, penticostal, protestant, catholic? Again just out of curiosity of your views.


I think there are christians in all those things you mentioned and more. also think there are many non christians in those. Both in leadership and listeners. I only call myself a christian because I believe jesus Christ is my savior. The problem with main stream christianity is that is far to influenced the by ways of the world.

Bad answer I know. sorry. I just dont really fit in with any of those groups.

Gilgamesh

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Wednesday, March 14th 2012, 10:56pm

So you dont fit in those groups? Why? What is the difference between your believes and their?
Iskandar the King of Conquerors

"Glory lies beyond the horizon. Challenge it because you know you cannot reach it. Speak of conquest and make it real." -

Gilgamesh the King of Heroes


All dreams must disappear when the dreamer wakes. Every last one of them."

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Wednesday, March 14th 2012, 11:06pm

So you dont fit in those groups? Why? What is the difference between your believes and their?


well in my opinion, a person should when reading the bible rely solely on the Holy Spirit to be their teacher. The bible in itself has issues with the way in which words have been translated. There are so many doctrines that have been made that are are not accurate and it is due to word translations. the very sad thing is that most main stream church attenders do not take the time to dig into the scriptures and see what words actually mean what, when words where added that were not in the original manuscripts or how things were worded differently to prove a doctrine that does not exist.

So for me I would say my beliefs differ in that I have taken the time and have the resources to search Gods word without the bias of seminary or the traditions of man.

You would be amazed at how many people who have done the same as me individually and I now meet them and they share the same beliefs as me completely. Its a refreshing thing really

Gilgamesh

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Thursday, March 15th 2012, 8:47am

So you dont fit in those groups? Why? What is the difference between your believes and their?


well in my opinion, a person should when reading the bible rely solely on the Holy Spirit to be their teacher. The bible in itself has issues with the way in which words have been translated. There are so many doctrines that have been made that are are not accurate and it is due to word translations. the very sad thing is that most main stream church attenders do not take the time to dig into the scriptures and see what words actually mean what, when words where added that were not in the original manuscripts or how things were worded differently to prove a doctrine that does not exist.

So for me I would say my beliefs differ in that I have taken the time and have the resources to search Gods word without the bias of seminary or the traditions of man.

You would be amazed at how many people who have done the same as me individually and I now meet them and they share the same beliefs as me completely. Its a refreshing thing really



Oh well at least you believes are based on your research, and that is always better than just blindly following what priests or other religious authorities say. :search: = :thumbup:
Iskandar the King of Conquerors

"Glory lies beyond the horizon. Challenge it because you know you cannot reach it. Speak of conquest and make it real." -

Gilgamesh the King of Heroes


All dreams must disappear when the dreamer wakes. Every last one of them."

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Friday, March 16th 2012, 8:34am

Quoted

The facts are that satan is real. He does roam the earth and he does get involved.
see as long as we keep believing in demons, devils and goblins
well never see a reason to tackle problems and solve em....

Quoted

So yes God could deal with em and the bible teaches that he will.
...cause we gonna keep on thinking its part of divine prophecy
and we won't have to solve it cause on day Jesus will stop it see

Quoted

One day i will know
many are invested in living life after death and nobody's even proven we have a soul yet

Poison - Rationalwarrior

the point is there is no reason to believe in boogyman and in some cases counter-productive to do so. Sure we can blame the devil for the problems in the world (never god though) but that don't change the fact that they are here, and we have to deal with them

Quoted

There are many things to ponder. disease, violence, sickness or death in children, why is evil even here at all.? so many thing I do not understand. So many things I wish I did understand.
well, if the above is the will of the devil (or just maybe by a long stretch of the imagination gods will) i think we (humans) are winning the war. Just think what very early humans had to go though, dying from simple things we now take for granted like bad hygiene, giving birth etc etc (now 7+ billion strong baby)
the only logic l can get from this is that humans are more 'powerful' than the devil or............ god (l know l talking nonsense)...they present a problem, we chew it up :D

but at the end of the day thinking like that no one will ever understand anything...

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Monday, March 19th 2012, 4:44am

ape

Quoted

(l know l talking nonsense)


well said.


If you don't want to add to the thread, don't post. This is just spam to the point of trolling. 1 warning for Trolling - Dark Dude

Noxiety

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Monday, March 26th 2012, 7:28am

Well I do not believe in any religion, but I do not fear if there is afterlife or not.
I mean, at the moment I will live the life I have what happens next (happens next).
And I mean, even if I were ever wrong about the existance of god, I'm not a bad person, I try always to do what's right, I do my best to be the best as I can be, so I guess wouldn't go to hell either,xP
Anyway, I think the best it's to live the life we have now, that's all we can do,xP

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Saturday, March 31st 2012, 10:23pm

Well I do not believe in any religion, but I do not fear if there is afterlife or not.
I mean, at the moment I will live the life I have what happens next (happens next).
And I mean, even if I were ever wrong about the existance of god, I'm not a bad person, I try always to do what's right, I do my best to be the best as I can be, so I guess wouldn't go to hell either,xP
Anyway, I think the best it's to live the life we have now, that's all we can do,xP

I am curious about something you said here. What do you base or how do you know you are "not a bad person". I am not saying you are a bad person; you might already be a Saint! Nor am I trolling. But to what standards do you use to determine if you are good or bad?
Hey, I know letssled attacks you a lot with his rips.......and I want to crash those rips a lot!

Noxiety

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Sunday, April 1st 2012, 9:42pm

Well, to start I don't make anything to harm other people in any way, usually always think before do something that may affect others 'cause of that. Another thing, I don't use easy ways to get out of problems (Not saying everyone who does is bad, 'cause some of them actually get through and even become better, but it's usual a big amout of them turn out kinda bad).
I always try to help who I see that deserves, the rest won't either do bad or good, just not get through with their lifes,xP
I don't know, there's many things, but guess that ones are probably the main.
Oh and I try to understand people reason for doing something before judging it,I guess that's something people "miss" too much.

That's what I understand by being a good person. Now of course people can say "nobody truely knows what's wrong or right" but I feel like I do what's right and don't fear to be accused as being a bad person. Guess that's it :)

EDIT: this double post keeps happening don't know why O_o

Noxiety

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Sunday, April 1st 2012, 9:42pm

Well, to start I don't make anything to harm other people in any way, usually always think before do something that may affect others 'cause of that. Another thing, I don't use easy ways to get out of problems (Not saying everyone who does is bad, 'cause some of them actually get through and even become better, but it's usual a big amout of them turn out kinda bad).
I always try to help who I see that deserves, the rest won't either do bad or good, just not get through with their lifes,xP
I don't know, there's many things, but guess that ones are probably the main.
Oh and I try to understand people reason for doing something before judging it,I guess that's something people "miss" too much.

That's what I understand by being a good person. Now of course people can say "nobody truely knows what's wrong or right" but I feel like I do what's right and don't fear to be accused as being a bad person. Guess that's it:)

Gilgamesh

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Tuesday, April 3rd 2012, 9:51pm

Well, to start I don't make anything to harm other people in any way, usually always think before do something that may affect others 'cause of that. Another thing, I don't use easy ways to get out of problems (Not saying everyone who does is bad, 'cause some of them actually get through and even become better, but it's usual a big amout of them turn out kinda bad).
I always try to help who I see that deserves, the rest won't either do bad or good, just not get through with their lifes,xP
I don't know, there's many things, but guess that ones are probably the main.
Oh and I try to understand people reason for doing something before judging it,I guess that's something people "miss" too much.

That's what I understand by being a good person. Now of course people can say "nobody truely knows what's wrong or right" but I feel like I do what's right and don't fear to be accused as being a bad person. Guess that's it:)



So in reality even Hitler was a good person because he did what he did for "better good"

Definition of good or bad reflects only the society, for in reality there is no definition of good or bad.
Iskandar the King of Conquerors

"Glory lies beyond the horizon. Challenge it because you know you cannot reach it. Speak of conquest and make it real." -

Gilgamesh the King of Heroes


All dreams must disappear when the dreamer wakes. Every last one of them."

letssled

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Wednesday, April 4th 2012, 5:26am

Well, to start I don't make anything to harm other people in any way, usually always think before do something that may affect others 'cause of that. Another thing, I don't use easy ways to get out of problems (Not saying everyone who does is bad, 'cause some of them actually get through and even become better, but it's usual a big amout of them turn out kinda bad).
I always try to help who I see that deserves, the rest won't either do bad or good, just not get through with their lifes,xP
I don't know, there's many things, but guess that ones are probably the main.
Oh and I try to understand people reason for doing something before judging it,I guess that's something people "miss" too much.

That's what I understand by being a good person. Now of course people can say "nobody truely knows what's wrong or right" but I feel like I do what's right and don't fear to be accused as being a bad person. Guess that's it:)
From what you have written, you have some admiral traits. But what about some of the deeper societal concerns? Such as abortion, gay marriage, promiscuous lifestyles, drug abuse, poverty, abuse etc. From Gods book you will be judged on all of these. Again, I am NOT saying you are a bad person or anything like that. But a "reference" point (for lack of a better word) is required to determine good or bad and using oneself can be really limiting in the broad scope of things.

So in reality even Hitler was a good person because he did what he did for "better good"

Definition of good or bad reflects only the society, for in reality there is no definition of good or bad.
This is a rather heavy example, but I agree with you on the Hitler comment. But I disagree with you on the definition of good or bad. When I began studying the bible, I needed a huge dose of humility realizing that I HAD to change if I wanted to become closer to Jesus. This is a common trait I see with most people here (and I was no different) arguing against religion. I sometimes wonder how many more people would "jump on board" if they could make religion change to fit their lifestyle.
Hey, I know letssled attacks you a lot with his rips.......and I want to crash those rips a lot!

Roboute Guilliman

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Wednesday, April 4th 2012, 12:53pm

]From what you have written, you have some admiral traits. But what about some of the deeper societal concerns? Such as abortion, gay marriage


Not sure that the advancement of women's rights and allowing people to marry those they love are really societal concerns. If anything I think the deeper concern is the continued habit of religious to hamper societal progress by digging in.

What precisely will happen to society if gay marriage were allowed?

Though I am not sure why we should listen about the "sanctity of life" from a god that massacred the first born of Egypt.


Quoted

But a "reference" point (for lack of a better word) is required to determine good or bad and using oneself can be really limiting in the broad scope of things.


I have never understood why we should accept God's morality as the "reference", after all God says that the sins of the father passes onto the sons. personally I find the concept that it is OK to punish someone for a crime they did not commit reprehensible. Now, why is God right? Is it just because he is the creator? Does that mean that "might makes right"?


Quoted

I sometimes wonder how many more people would "jump on board" if they could make religion change to fit their lifestyle.


No, it wouldn't change the lack of evidence for any religion any less of an issue.

Though of course it is already the case that people can change religion to fit their lifestyle, for one it isn't like there is only one way to interpret even Christianity. And the number of people who conveniently miss out all the parts of the Bible they think are wrong (for example there are Christians who don't have a problem with homosexuality, after all why would a loving, all powerful god care about who you live etc?).



"I believe in evidence. I believe in observation, measurement, and reasoning, confirmed by independent observers. I'll believe anything, no matter how wild and ridiculous, if there is evidence for it. The wilder and more ridiculous something is, however, the firmer and more solid the evidence will have to be."
-Isaac Asimov

letssled

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Wednesday, April 4th 2012, 4:53pm

Quoted from "letssled"
]From what you have written, you have some admiral traits. But what about some of the deeper societal concerns? Such as abortion, gay marriage



Not sure that the advancement of women's rights and allowing people to marry those they love are really societal concerns. If anything I think the deeper concern is the continued habit of religious to hamper societal progress by digging in.

What precisely will happen to society if gay marriage were allowed?

Though I am not sure why we should listen about the "sanctity of life" from a god that massacred the first born of Egypt.


Quoted
But a "reference" point (for lack of a better word) is required to determine good or bad and using oneself can be really limiting in the broad scope of things.



I have never understood why we should accept God's morality as the "reference", after all God says that the sins of the father passes onto the sons. personally I find the concept that it is OK to punish someone for a crime they did not commit reprehensible. Now, why is God right? Is it just because he is the creator? Does that mean that "might makes right"?


Quoted
I sometimes wonder how many more people would "jump on board" if they could make religion change to fit their lifestyle.



No, it wouldn't change the lack of evidence for any religion any less of an issue.

Though of course it is already the case that people can change religion to fit their lifestyle, for one it isn't like there is only one way to interpret even Christianity. And the number of people who conveniently miss out all the parts of the Bible they think are wrong (for example there are Christians who don't have a problem with homosexuality, after all why would a loving, all powerful god care about who you live etc?)


Since when does Murdering a baby in the womb advance womens rights? The women DID use her right to choose! She had sex, and got pregnant ( as for rape it is a tiny percentage, and what is worse rape or murder), now she has to deal with the consequences. As for Gay marriage, perhaps a little research on how un-healthy of a lifestyle it is (increased suicide rates, diseases, cancer, etc) just for starters. I am not going to comment on this stuff anymore as this is in another thread and off topic.

Again Roboute, if you would have done even a little research......

The Jews were the slaves of the Egyptians for generations. The Egyptian Pharoah ordered the execution of all of the
firstborn sons of the Jews and it was carried out. Only Moses escaped,
by being cared for by Pharoah's daughter. If all the Jews of the Old
Testament were punished for David's sin of taking a census, then what
should happen to the Egyptians for the sin of Pharoah for murdering all
of the firstborn sons of the Jews (drowning them in the Nile)?

Pharaoh himself called down the punishment on Egypt, having first been
warned by Moses that the punishment he meted on the Jews would be turned
back on the Egyptians. In total the Pharoah was warned either 9 or 10 times to release the Jews, but he refused. So this was the judgement God chose.


Remember, you may find being punished for the sins of our Fathers "reprehensible", but you have forgotten the divine mercy of REDEMPTION God offers. You and I have the opportunity to repent, mend our ways, and follow Christs teachings. We don't have too make the same mistakes our Fathers made. God makes that clear many times. You may not like the bible or Christ as a reference point, but as Noxiety pointed out Hitler would have called himself a good man.



Agreed there are many weak religions that have warped the bible into a Dr.Feelgood no consequence way of living. But, for example, if a "Catholic" chooses to support abortion, does not believe in Christ, etc. They really are not Catholic, they just call themselves that; maybe even attend a Catholic Church in body only. But God wants everyone to go to Heaven, and he makes that clear many, many times. So it is of GRAVE importance to God on how we live, we have free will and He WANTS us to go to Heaven. But we and only we can make decisions and live our lives to the best or worst of our abilities. When the time comes, we will be judged on how well we have done.
Hey, I know letssled attacks you a lot with his rips.......and I want to crash those rips a lot!