Gods in school

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    • Gods in school

      So i went to my daughters chorus last night. She is 11. She sang very beautifully. all of them did. I was a bit surprised at the the program

      It was called holiday round the world. It should have been called" holiday round the world excluding anything that mentions Christ"

      a hanukkah song
      a ramadan song
      a song sung in spanish (not about Christmas)
      and finally the icing

      the atheist national anthem

      imagine!! What does imagine have to do with anything holiday-ish

      wtf is this world coming to. Heres the thing. its fine that there is a multi cultural school system and its fine that their beliefs are respected. But clearly Christianity is not respected in our schools. Is this what we want as a nation? To completely remove Jesus from our country? Because this is where it is going.

      We are now so afraid of diversity that Christianity cant be sung about in a holiday concert.

      Is sung a word?
    • Stop and think for a second about the fact you live in a world that is so saturated with christianity, that you actually think it odd when it doesn't appear somewhere.

      *Mind Blown*
    • its because everyone is so desperate to appease bloody muslims that they dont celebrate christmas at schools! or have children Nativity.

      wake up Europe and take fight with the invaders we reclaim Europe for the Europeans and christians!

      its an outrage that everything is anti-christian and pro-muslim all the time.

      when I was younger only few years back we sang christian hymns in assembly and now no one dares even mention the lords name out of fear of some nut job Muslim swine getting them fired for being in tolerate to a religion that is completely in tolerate to others?

      a religion of peace? my ass.

      now back on topic I think its disgusting its christmas and if people arent going to celebrate the reason for Christmas then they shouldnt be celebrating Christmas simple as.


      @Treize Khushrenada my bad I thoughtit was christmas how stupid I am

      A little less of the hate when discussing and what-not, please. -FF
    • Treize Khushrenada wrote:

      Stop and think for a second about the fact you live in a world that is so saturated with christianity, that you actually think it odd when it doesn't appear somewhere.

      *Mind Blown*


      Pretty much this. I'm assuming you come from a region where Christianity is the norm; if they're doing a program about holidays around the world, it probably wouldn't be necessary to include the one that most likely everyone in the room is already aware off and is going to go home and celebrate on the 25th.
    • Treize Khushrenada wrote:

      Stop and think for a second about the fact you live in a world that is so saturated with christianity, that you actually think it odd when it doesn't appear somewhere.

      *Mind Blown*

      I think its odd in america to deliberately omit a song about Christ during the Christmas season at a holiday concert.
      I think it says volumes about our countries view on diversity and inclusion or disclusion when it comes to Christianity

      Pretty much this. I'm assuming you come from a region where Christianity is the norm; if they're doing a program about holidays around the world, it probably wouldn't be necessary to include the one that most likely everyone in the room is already aware off and is going to go home and celebrate on the 25th.


      and what do we celebrate on dec 25? xmas right? And be sure not to send your kid in with a card that says anything other than happy holidays because its not allowed in school.
    • @AlexDelarge, you're missing the point, one that I tried to make and that jrock reiterated, if you live in America, you know about Christ, Christianity, Moses, God, blah blah blah. There is NO need to keep reminding us about it.

      As to your point about Christmas, and yes, I called it Christmas, I'm an atheist and yet I still celebrate it, why do you think that is? It's because it's a CULTURAL holiday, not a religious one. Sure, it started that way, but in these times of agnosticism and secularism, that's not why people celebrate the holiday. What do you tell the Hindu family that has lived in America for five years, they celebrate Thanksgiving and they've taken to the tradition of putting up a tree and exchanging gifts. They don't believe the FOLKLORE that Christmas is based on, but they want their kids to learn the culture and to have something that other kids have as well, the experience. So why should they be subject to a SERMON at a school sponsored holiday event? Christ is being taken out of Christmas because there are non-Christians celebrating the holiday. Christmas is no longer the celebration of Jesus Christ, it's the celebration of family and brotherhood and the exchange of gifts and charity.
    • I was walking home the other day, merrily cheering as they turned on a spectacular display of lights in the mall for the first time this year. Then as I walked away, I thought to myself "Ohhhh lord, how long will it be before we get the usual theocrats screeching in the Daily Mail about ludicrous reactionary bulls--- like 'The evil SECULARISTS are waging a WAR on CHRISTMAS! BAN THIS SICK FILTH!'?". Didn't take too long I see! *sighs*

      the atheist national anthem

      LolWAT? We have a national anthem now?! 8|

      imagine!! What does imagine have to do with anything holiday-ish

      Gee, here was me thinking the spirit of Christmas was that of sharing and peace. Y'know, like the Christmas Peace in WWI? Or is that too "secular" and "socialist" for you reactionary types? X(

      wtf is this world coming to. Heres the thing. its fine that there is a multi cultural school system and its fine that their beliefs are respected. But clearly Christianity is not respected in our schools. Is this what we want as a nation? To completely remove Jesus from our country? Because this is where it is going.

      We are now so afraid of diversity that Christianity cant be sung about in a holiday concert.

      Where in the name of all that is decent do you live? I live in the UK. We had to sing Christmas carols every year until Year 8 (after that we'd sit in assembly and watch the lower years sing), with Christmas trees, a school-provided Christmas card service, Christmas songs allowed on the sixth form radio when we hit Years 12 and 13. Did the Muslims complain? No, they celebrated christmas too. Did we agnostics/atheists/secular theists complain? No, we celebrated christmas too.

      Look, the long story short is this: there is no war on Christmas. It's a fictitious war the authoritarian right have created to give an excuse to pump their moralistic authoritarian diatribes into the society which we fought so long and hard to be rid of. It's simple, to them, Christmas is about indoctrination. And they need it, because people are waking up in the 21st Century and realising God is either a different nature to that proposed by the Bible, or an absurd idea altogether, and this hurts them so much. Anything less than a completely strict treading of the party line is secular tyranny, apparently.


      its because everyone is so desperate to appease bloody muslims that they dont celebrate christmas at schools! or have children Nativity.

      Oh god here we go again... Yes, screw those Muslims, and their... celebrating Ramadan peacefully on their own.... and their... celebrating Christmas too, depending on how liberal they are.... Yeah!

      wake up Europe and take fight with the invaders we reclaim Europe for the Europeans and christians!

      Oh, hey there Mr. Mussolini, didn't see you for a moment...

      when I was younger only few years back we sang christian hymns in assembly and now no one dares even mention the lords name out of fear of some nut job Muslim swine getting them fired for being in tolerate to a religion that is completely in tolerate to others?

      Aheeeem. "Muslim swine". If I weren't suspending my moderator duties in order to respond to you (I keep my moderation and my opinionation separated by an iron fence: I am going to get another SMod or BA to look at this and give a non-biased response instead), this would easily be a warnable offence. Yes, and if I called you "Christian X", where X is a pejorative term, yes, I would also be warned, before you crusade on about this board being run by "Atheist muslims waging a war on Christianity"...

      As it stands, I went to a Church of England primary school until 2003 (and was a theist until 2006ish). Prayers every day at the end of assembly. And it still does it.

      now back on topic I think its disgusting its christmas and if people arent going to celebrate the reason for Christmas then they shouldnt be celebrating Christmas simple as.

      Thank you for proving my earlier point: you want Christmas to be indoctrination, and want the country run from the pulpits again; a slave state of "God" (in actual fact it'll be like it's always been: a corrupt despotism not unlike that of the Shah in Iran, just Christian). Because it's just so hard for you to bear knowing that around the UK, gay people are having sex in private, people are looking at facts and deciding they can't see the finger of god in this, and women are able to be independent of their husbands. Am I right? ;)

      I think its odd in america to deliberately omit a song about Christ during the Christmas season at a holiday concert.
      I think it says volumes about our countries view on diversity and inclusion or disclusion when it comes to Christianity



      Now, I cannot speak for America, as I don't live there. However, with regards to schools, your problem is not with the atheists, oh no. Nor the muslims. Your problem is with the Constitution. The First Amendment lays out the Establishment Clause: That Church and State shall be separate ("The state shall favour no one religion over another", essentially). Schools are publically funded bodies, and hence class as "state". They must thus abide by this clause.


      Le sigh... Wait, I can't say "Le", I'll annoy the BNP folk again...
    • Maybe you didn't consider this possibility but the institution that you are talking about is a school. A place of education. The children already know about what Christmas is from an American perspective because they experience the native traditions every year.

      Perhaps the school thought that it would be a good idea to expose the Children to something different so that they could actually, you know, learn about it! Since learning things, is afterall, what school is actually about.

      So my question is, schools are teaching people things and parents are compaining about it!!! "WTF is the world coming to?" is my question too.
    • Treize Khushrenada wrote:

      @AlexDelarge, you're missing the point, one that I tried to make and that jrock reiterated, if you live in America, you know about Christ, Christianity, Moses, God, blah blah blah. There is NO need to keep reminding us about it.

      As to your point about Christmas, and yes, I called it Christmas, I'm an atheist and yet I still celebrate it, why do you think that is? It's because it's a CULTURAL holiday, not a religious one. Sure, it started that way, but in these times of agnosticism and secularism, that's not why people celebrate the holiday. What do you tell the Hindu family that has lived in America for five years, they celebrate Thanksgiving and they've taken to the tradition of putting up a tree and exchanging gifts. They don't believe the FOLKLORE that Christmas is based on, but they want their kids to learn the culture and to have something that other kids have as well, the experience. So why should they be subject to a SERMON at a school sponsored holiday event? Christ is being taken out of Christmas because there are non-Christians celebrating the holiday. Christmas is no longer the celebration of Jesus Christ, it's the celebration of family and brotherhood and the exchange of gifts and charity.


      well said... you just described most of the problem
    • So unless I'm a bible thumper believer that worships the zombie jesus I can't celebrate Christmas? I have to sit out an entire holiday? I can't have dinner with my family, I can't exchange gifts, I can't hum christmas tunes?

      I guess that means I can exclude you from anything that is secular?
    • Treize Khushrenada wrote:

      So unless I'm a bible thumper believer that worships the zombie jesus I can't celebrate Christmas? I have to sit out an entire holiday? I can't have dinner with my family, I can't exchange gifts, I can't hum christmas tunes?

      I guess that means I can exclude you from anything that is secular?

      Isn't it hilarious? "Nobody celebrates Christmas. Grrr! It's a War on Christmas!" one moment, then "Non-Christians celebrate Christmas?! Grrr! It's a War on Christmas!" the next. I see what it really is: they just want us to worship Christ in particular <_<
    • AlexDelarge wrote:

      Treize Khushrenada wrote:

      @AlexDelarge, you're missing the point, one that I tried to make and that jrock reiterated, if you live in America, you know about Christ, Christianity, Moses, God, blah blah blah. There is NO need to keep reminding us about it.

      As to your point about Christmas, and yes, I called it Christmas, I'm an atheist and yet I still celebrate it, why do you think that is? It's because it's a CULTURAL holiday, not a religious one. Sure, it started that way, but in these times of agnosticism and secularism, that's not why people celebrate the holiday. What do you tell the Hindu family that has lived in America for five years, they celebrate Thanksgiving and they've taken to the tradition of putting up a tree and exchanging gifts. They don't believe the FOLKLORE that Christmas is based on, but they want their kids to learn the culture and to have something that other kids have as well, the experience. So why should they be subject to a SERMON at a school sponsored holiday event? Christ is being taken out of Christmas because there are non-Christians celebrating the holiday. Christmas is no longer the celebration of Jesus Christ, it's the celebration of family and brotherhood and the exchange of gifts and charity.


      well said... you just described most of the problem


      If it makes you feel any better, this is probably just how the pagans felt when those irritating Christians came along and subverted their holy festival. The festival now known as Christmas long pre-dates Christianity.
    • I dont care what you do on Christmas. Not the point of the thread the point is that our school system in an effort to appease other religions omits Christianity as it offends people of other religions. Nobody cares if Christianity is offended by it. You all prove this very well.

      So be fair to other religions...but if your not fair to Christianity its ok.


      If it makes you feel any better, this is probably just how the pagans felt when those irritating Christians came along and subverted their holy festival. The festival now known as Christmas long pre-dates Christianity.


      off topic but I will agree the pagan celebration was adopted by the roman church. But what does that have to do with Christianity.
    • AlexDelarge wrote:

      I dont care what you do on Christmas. Not the point of the thread the point is that our school system in an effort to appease other religions omits Christianity as it offends people of other religions. Nobody cares if Christianity is offended by it. You all prove this very well.

      So be fair to other religions...but if your not fair to Christianity its ok.


      You're going to teach your kids about Christmas from a Christian perspective and you will have a lot more time to devote to it than a school ever will. The precious time at school should be spent on things the kids aren't exposed to every minute of every day so that they get some international perspective, something which is actually valuable in an increasingly globalised world. Afterall, if the schools didn't teach those things, would you? I'm guessing the answer is NO.

      AlexDelarge wrote:


      off topic but I will agree the pagan celebration was adopted by the roman church. But what does that have to do with Christianity.


      You seemed to be complaining that atheists were appropriating Christmas as a non-religious holiday. I was pointing out that Christianity originally appropriated Christmas, a religious holiday of a different religion.
    • again fractal its a public school I understand people will not all believe what I believe and I dont have a problem with what they played (outside of imagine) my problem is with what they didnt play.
      for my kids to learn about other cultures AND belief systems is fine. Its educational and thats what they go to school for. However when they are being taught that omitting Christ is ok to do (and its not just this concert its in everything they do) and including other religious beliefs is a necessary. maybe you could then understand why Im upset.

      This is my point. the public school system in america has no issue with religion as long as its not about jesus
    • I think its odd in america to deliberately omit a song about Christ during the Christmas season at a holiday concert.

      I was a bit surprised at the the program
      It was called holiday round the world.

      /facepalm

      Fabulous yarn, brethren.

      Now why don't you go home and get ready to celebrate Christmas with your family, mkay? Instead of complaining that a program your school had set up to be about Holidays around the world and excluding the one celebrated at home, which everyone already knew about.

      When the Gestapo kicks your door down for having a Christmas tree, or something of a similar nature that is a form of real oppression occurs, I'll listen to you complain. -_-
    • AlexDelarge wrote:

      again fractal its a public school I understand people will not all believe what I believe and I dont have a problem with what they played (outside of imagine) my problem is with what they didnt play.
      for my kids to learn about other cultures AND belief systems is fine. Its educational and thats what they go to school for. However when they are being taught that omitting Christ is ok to do (and its not just this concert its in everything they do) and including other religious beliefs is a necessary. maybe you could then understand why Im upset.

      This is my point. the public school system in america has no issue with religion as long as its not about jesus

      I see you completely missed my chart lol. And the currency. Oh, and let's not forget the constant attempts to put creationism in the science classroom...

      When the Gestapo kicks your door down for having a Christmas tree, or something of a similar nature that is a form of real oppression occurs, I'll listen to you complain. -_-

      Yeah, I hate white whine when it's stale too...
    • AlexDelarge wrote:

      again fractal its a public school I understand people will not all believe what I believe and I dont have a problem with what they played (outside of imagine) my problem is with what they didnt play.
      for my kids to learn about other cultures AND belief systems is fine. Its educational and thats what they go to school for. However when they are being taught that omitting Christ is ok to do (and its not just this concert its in everything they do) and including other religious beliefs is a necessary. maybe you could then understand why Im upset.

      This is my point. the public school system in america has no issue with religion as long as its not about jesus


      Maybe it's more practical, maybe it's simply that there is no point teaching kids something that they already know. There is no point teaching basic addition at high school because everyone already knows it and it's a waste of time when they could teach something that actually makes the kids learn something new and enriches them.

      Also, as a side note, they should feel perfectly fine teaching kids that it's okay to "Omit Christ" if that is something that children decide they want to do. Schools shouldn't be teaching any religion at all from a "you should believe this" perspective, they should simply be informing children of facts about what religions believe and, particularly the cultural heritage and practises. You have to let them decide for themselves if they want to be people of faith, not try and shoehorn them down a prescribed path.

      In some cases, teaching about christianity might be beneficial in American schools to families who perhaps don't come from that background. However, the vast majority do and public education is always going to be aimed at the vast majority. Consider what would happen if Christian countries taught people about the customs and traditions of non-Christian peope and non-Christian people did the same in response. Peoples of different religions might actually be a bit more prone to actually trusting and respecting one another! ;)
    • jrock...the thing is....brethren..... ahh nvm just see post 15. I hate being from the department of redundancy department.


      Also, as a side note, they should feel perfectly fine teaching kids that it's okay to "Omit Christ" if that is something that children decide they want to do. Schools shouldn't be teaching any religion at all from a "you should believe this" perspective, they should simply be informing children of facts about what religions believe and, particularly the cultural heritage and practises. You have to let them decide for themselves if they want to be people of faith, not try and shoehorn them down a prescribed path.


      again ...sigh...learning new beliefs is OK. Not learning about Jesus in public school is OK. My point. again..is that....the school.....caters to all religious beliefs...with the exception of anything that has to do with Jesus...

      My children are taught by me to learn all things and make a decision for their own life. What they are learning is not my gripe.

      DD your post was long so just read it. half your quotes are from the other dude and the ones you reply to my quotes dont really have anything to do with what Im saying.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by AlexDelarge ().

    • AlexDelarge wrote:

      It was called holiday round the world. It should have been called" holiday round the world excluding anything that mentions Christ"


      Maybe the idea was to try and be a little different, after all it isn't like you can get away from Christmas at the moment. Actually seems like a nice idea, why must everything include christ?


      a hanukkah song


      Seems reasonable enough given that Hanukkah is at this time of year.


      the atheist national anthem


      I hadn't realised there'd been a vote.


      wtf is this world coming to. Heres the thing. its fine that there is a multi cultural school system and its fine that their beliefs are respected. But clearly Christianity is not respected in our schools.


      Really? "In our schools" or in one school, on one night?


      Is this what we want as a nation? To completely remove Jesus from our country?


      A thouch of an over reaction don't you think?



      AlexDelarge wrote:

      I dont care what you do on Christmas. Not the point of the thread the point is that our school system in an effort to appease other religions omits Christianity as it offends people of other religions. Nobody cares if Christianity is offended by it. You all prove this very well.


      I find there something of a disconect between your whining about people being offended if their religion isn't included and your whining about the fact that YOUR religion wasn't included. So it is ok for YOU to be offended, but it is not ok for these other religions to be offended? I mean seriously look at it, jesus was excluded (probably not even intentionally) from 1 christmas concert and suddenly "their trying to take christ out of the schools and the country".

      Perhapes the Jews are offended that their holiday at this time is completely drowned out by the juggernaut of Christmas. Hell, maybe sometimes it is just nice to celebrate the other holidays at this time or other cultures without having to kowtow to the easily offended christan masses.


      So be fair to other religions...but if your not fair to Christianity its ok.


      Welcome to being a privaleged majority, sometimes people don't feel the need to go the extra mile when you already have everything.


      If it makes you feel any better, this is probably just how the pagans felt when those irritating Christians came along and subverted their holy festival. The festival now known as Christmas long pre-dates Christianity.

      off topic but I will agree the pagan celebration was adopted by the roman church. But what does that have to do with Christianity.



      Well for one it is hilarious that you are complaining about jesus being taken out of a holiday that was coopted in the first place, but also that if we look at what is celebrated at Christmas jesus actually makes up only a small amount. Most of it is coopted from other faiths and has evolved over a long time (even the idea of singing songs at this time was originally pagan).

      Seriously, people need to chill out and realise that 1. Christmas is no longer (and has never really been) solely a christian holiday, now a days Christmas is a secular holiday. And 2. just because other peoples religions are celebrated and yours isn't doesn't mean there is a big conspiracy to get rid of jesus. Were the Hindus sung about? Are you offended by their exclusion?

      Maybe we should just pack in the whole Christmas thing and celebrate Newtonmas. Issac Newton was actually born on Dec 25th (unlike jesus), was a genius who started modern science and has the biggest advantage over jesus of actually existing :tongue3:

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Roboute Guilliman ().