Enormous hit as usual I would say, congrats you two! :thumbup:
Sorry to see you down Vegeto - FR, stick around
Well sensei, there was a 40+ page discussion about the hate against the turtles, it's mostly because we don't have to spend much time and our playstyle is considered "safe", plus defences don't produce profit for the attackers.
I wouldn't call it safe though. Investing in defence (instead of fleet or mines has a few drawbacks):
1. Invested recourses don't increase the income, thus they don't increase the growth rate (which is a fundamental aspect of ogame)
Well it could save you the trouble of fleetsaving or hiding behind the vacation mode shield. So in the long term it might actually benefit you. Because you can stay out of v-mode forever keeping your mine income etc.
2. Defences can't be moved and can be destroyed. And there are 2 factors that turtles can't deal with alone, if executed properly:
Yup and Yup, if it's not about profit, all turtles can be bashed down.
- ACS attacks
- IPMs attacks
3. Defence has no threatening power. Fleet behind defence has, just like any other fleet ofc.
Yeah sadly its like defense: vs. fleet .
All in all we can assume that fleeters hate (= bully) turtles because they want to furce the turtles to play like fleeters (potential profit from df) or to play like miners (smaller df, farming potential) and they use that hate as en excuse.
Can't blame them, turtles like me keep them away from growing faster.
Since it's a war game that tactic is allowed and acceptable to me. If gameforge would want to change that then IPMs and ACS attacks would be nerfed, or defences would be buffed.
Agreed! Trick is to make IPMs and ACS unprofitable, which isnt that difficult actually.
I didn't mention RIP attacks, we all know that a well set defence can beat a RIP fleet of an equal value.
Actually in a 30% DF uni a well constructed turtle can become unprofitable against a Deathstar fleet of 11x value. (100k deathstars vs 2m rocket, 400k plasma, 4k deathstars = unprofitable)
Personally so far I have invested only 20-25% of my total points in defence and 3-4% on fleet, and this hit along with the reasons I stated above is exactly why.
I had about the same here. My distribution of points was about 40% mines, 15% research, 15% fleet and 30% defense. After this hit 0% is fleet, 55% is mines, 20% is research and like 25% is defense. But I agree that mines / economy are most important for any player, fleeter or not.
Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to build a huge turtle like you guys did. I find it way more entertaining that investing constantly in mines.
It's just that the game is designed in a way that defences are so vulnerable against haters...
Yes there are some benefits like this v-mode shield (I like this term ), the less time you have to spend on playing, the 70% rebuild etc.
But if players are playing to gain points and reach the top ranks then a turtle shouldn't be able to compete a high skilled competitive miner or fleeter, because both will have invested WAY more resources into mines and/or fleet, the only options that increase the growth rate (along with plasma technology).
I am curious to see, and I will definitely run many sims as long as I have the free time (not gonna happen soon ) if a defence could be effective vs RIPs without having any RIPs behind the plasma cannons. And if so, to compare the cost and effectiveness of it with a balanced defence like the one you proposed.
Just for fun, I'm not going to build it anyway.
Just for the record, my account is currently like this, playing in a Greek server (used to be x4 before the merge).
Structures 70.722.462 (64.1 %)
Research 12.477.862 (11.3 %)
Armada 4.286.851 (3.8 %)
Defences 22.697.242 (20.5 %
and 63.5M points are invested in mines. I am also planning to start upgrading my deut synthesizers within a few weeks.
Although it's a highly effective way of playing, it get's a bit boring sometimes... I wish this game would give me the opportunity to create a huge turtle, but it doesn't. Since I will still be top1 on my server even if I would loose all my fleet and defences, I will stick to pure mining from now on and who knows, maybe something will change in the future.
Quoted from "Solidarity"
Thanks for softening him up
That's true! They avenged you and you had an impact on that fight. It must feel good!