Suggestion for .ORG - Fix for Merching and lowering flying costs

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    • Suggestion for .ORG - Fix for Merching and lowering flying costs

      Implement 50% Deut consumption.

      Fix the .ORG trade rates at 3-2-1 for player to player trades.
      Merchant trades would be set at 95-97% of 3-2-1 as the cost of an instant swap.


      Miners get a good rate, takes care of "Merching" and fleeters get less cost to fly.

      I tried to suggested this on the Origin board and they told me to bring it back here to the .org board.

      Happy Hunting to all.
      May the Profit Gods look Favorably upon you.

      Regards, version4









      version4

      R-B The Bunnies shall lead the Revolution

      Long Live UNI 1
      Long Live UNI 17
    • Erebos wrote:

      3/2/1 is just ridiculous to pay for deut.
      Actually not. Especially when combined with lowering the fuel consumption. It would suit the changed economy dynamics.

      The issue with deut right now, is that fleet sizes have outgrown deut income, to the point where a full fleet flight is several weeks worth of deut production. By lowering the consumption at the same time, you actually get more flight for the same amount of metal/crystal compared to now.

      The merchant change is a price increase of 25-50% (depending on your usual rates) compared to now.
      The reduced consumption means you can launch twice as much fleet for the same cost, increasing the fuel efficiency by 100%.
      Net profits of this change would be 50-75% in the positives. E.g. If 100 million metal would now buy you a flight with 20k Dest to a target, those 100 million metal would buy you a flight with 30-35k Dest to the same target with the proposed changes implemented.

      Miner would get more ress for their deut, and fleeters got to fly bigger fleets farther. A win/win situation I'd say.
      56G TD, Top 1 solo
      61G TD, Top 1 ACS

      Kamil wrote:

      Authority and rules are created to be opposed :D
    • fuel efficiency ideas are good in theory. it all flies out the window if you end up needing to recall. and i don't care how good you are, we've all had that happen more often than we would like to admit.

      3:2:1 is too high.
      TOP 1 (solo) x 2 (ACS) x 1
      TOP 10 (solo) x 3 (ACS) x 9
      Super Adv x 46
      Adv x 261
      Basic x 1632

      RIP KILLS 5745



    • Dark Depresion wrote:

      The issue with deut right now, is that fleet sizes have outgrown deut income, to the point where a full fleet flight is several weeks worth of deut production.
      That is just bad planning on the fleeters side, they should have taken that into mind before building more ships, and that is why they keep trying to buy the Deut way cheaper than it is worth.

      I have many times said that miners have a real power since they could cut off the Deut supply to fleeters and they would be forced into v-mode or stay online sitting their fleets.

      If you lower the costs on flights, then Destroyers become much more powerful, since the only thing stopping fleeters from using them more often is the high Deut cost to fly them.

      The game would change a lot with those modifications. It could become interesting, but mainly it is a move favoring the fleeters and not the rest of the players. Truth is that the merchant changed the game but many fleeters did not change their playing strategies accordingly.

      For me the charm of the game is in the decisions you have to make for the long run, but GameForge keeps putting in DM bought features so you can buy your way out of the sinkhole you dug for yourself. The feature is there, buy Deut with DM, buy more fields, move your planets to reduce Deut spent on the hit. That is how the "great" OGame players do things now.


      Without Contraries is no progression
    • I don't like the 50% consumption personally.

      Fleeting comes with big rewards and thus should have big risks. Part of which is the cost of sending the ships when the hit may failed.

      I think the suggestion changes the game a little on the extreme side

      I just feel a more reasonable update would be to reduce the merchant to 2.5/1.5/1.
      This mitigates some of the merchant / dm abuse so many players have been complaining about
      While also leaving the game mechanics in place.
    • personally, i'm sick and tired of dealing with miners. they want it all their own way. easier to just hit them.

      leave merchant as it is.

      at least the merchant is always willing to trade, lol.
      TOP 1 (solo) x 2 (ACS) x 1
      TOP 10 (solo) x 3 (ACS) x 9
      Super Adv x 46
      Adv x 261
      Basic x 1632

      RIP KILLS 5745



    • baal wrote:

      fuel efficiency ideas are good in theory. it all flies out the window if you end up needing to recall. and i don't care how good you are, we've all had that happen more often than we would like to admit.

      3:2:1 is too high.
      I remember in the old days many a fleet was caught because the player gambled his last Deut on a crash and had to recall. With the merchant that no longer happens.


      baal wrote:

      personally, i'm sick and tired of dealing with miners. they want it all their own way. easier to just hit them.

      leave merchant as it is.

      at least the merchant is always willing to trade, lol.
      I guess the guys at Rigel felt that way years ago :P. Now, come on, as far as I know you are one of the fleeters who are willing to pay a fair price for Deut, at least I remeber you posting once that you offered 2.5:1.5:1 rates, which is high for a fleeter.

      Sadly the merchant is not going to go away, but it would be great to have players engaged in trading once again. It gave the game another layer of depth and strategy.


      Without Contraries is no progression
    • i didn't say ALL miners.

      just most of them.

      and i wasn't talking about bashing for 2:1:1 which appears to be happening in Rigel. i was talking about targeting for profit. its just easier. i get messed around too much, and its not worth the bother when you can just hit them.
      TOP 1 (solo) x 2 (ACS) x 1
      TOP 10 (solo) x 3 (ACS) x 9
      Super Adv x 46
      Adv x 261
      Basic x 1632

      RIP KILLS 5745



    • i don't understand that comment.

      nobody has stolen any of my resources.

      the fact is, like you said yourself earlier, miners hold all the cards regarding trade. and the thread starter wants the advantages tipped even further in their favour by making all player trades 3:2:1

      no way. too high.

      there's more than one way to skin a cat, lol.
      TOP 1 (solo) x 2 (ACS) x 1
      TOP 10 (solo) x 3 (ACS) x 9
      Super Adv x 46
      Adv x 261
      Basic x 1632

      RIP KILLS 5745



      The post was edited 1 time, last by baal ().

    • The point about fleeters digging their own hole is rediculous. If you only consider own production then even with deut 40s in slot 15s your fleet will be unsustainable so much faster than the measly return on the deut 40 investments.

      Like Baal said, launch and miss is something you can't really mitigate for even if you have their times down.

      The game was balanced for a shorter time frame than many of us have played.

      I'd also be careful with "miners hold all the cards." The game isn't that simple.

      Lowered deut consumption would be ok, but managing your deut is just part of the game imho
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    • I thought maybe some wiseguy had said he would trade and then send less res that he should, you being high ranked it would be pulling and he would get away from the ban, but maybe not from the retribution :P. Anyhow, I left my imagination run wild.


      Without Contraries is no progression
    • pirate andy wrote:

      The game was balanced for a shorter time frame than many of us have played.

      I'd also be careful with "miners hold all the cards." The game isn't that simple.

      Lowered deut consumption would be ok, but managing your deut is just part of the game imho
      The game is as balanced or unbalanced as the accounts inside of it are. If everybody built only metal mines there would be no crystal or deut and the game would become stagnant.

      Also, I did not say that miners hold all the cards, I said that fleeters do not hold all the cards, as many believe. What I have said before and will say again is that the standard trade rates determine the line between profit and loss in many hits. Fleeters want low rates to get more profit out of heir hits, miners want more profit out of that useless oxigen.

      I agree with your last statement, Deut management is a part of the game. It was more important before the Merchant, but it remains pretty important.

      pirate andy wrote:

      The point about fleeters digging their own hole is rediculous. If you only consider own production then even with deut 40s in slot 15s your fleet will be unsustainable so much faster than the measly return on the deut 40 investments.
      I did not say they should sustain their fleets with their own mines, I just say that they should have an income that allows them to pay for the fleet. In other words, you can have as big a fleet as you want if you manage to raid and crash enough to sustain it.

      Hence, the size of the fleets should adapt to the characteristics of the universe.

      Or you can kill everything in sight and become king of a ghost town and would have no need to fleetsave or fly at all.


      Without Contraries is no progression
    • let me clarify what i mean by being messed about.

      yes, i will trade - but it will only be once or twice ... after that i will be doing a fricking great long research - and then i will forget i was meant to be trading with you anyway ... but i still expect my NAP, because we have an agreement.

      or

      yes, i will trade - but i don't want you hitting any of my (20 or so) alliance buddies.

      or

      yes, i will trade - but it will be some piddly small amount, once in a blue moon, even though you could make tons more profit by hitting me.

      or

      yes, i will trade - but only if i have some spare and none of my alliance buddies want it.

      ***

      oh, and if they get hit - cos you've got fed up with it all - you are a bully.
      TOP 1 (solo) x 2 (ACS) x 1
      TOP 10 (solo) x 3 (ACS) x 9
      Super Adv x 46
      Adv x 261
      Basic x 1632

      RIP KILLS 5745



      The post was edited 2 times, last by baal ().

    • Tezcatlipoca wrote:

      Dark Depresion wrote:

      The issue with deut right now, is that fleet sizes have outgrown deut income, to the point where a full fleet flight is several weeks worth of deut production.
      That is just bad planning on the fleeters side, they should have taken that into mind before building more ships, and that is why they keep trying to buy the Deut way cheaper than it is worth.
      I have many times said that miners have a real power since they could cut off the Deut supply to fleeters and they would be forced into v-mode or stay online sitting their fleets

      What are you talking about? Fleeters can bash miners whenever they want, I dont need doot to send my RIPS on your planets..
      Id rather sell doot than being bashed every fucking day.

      50 off deut :check:

      3/2/1 :canceled:
    • Laerix wrote:

      Fleeters can bash miners whenever they want, I dont need doot to send my RIPS on your planets..
      Id rather sell doot than being bashed every fucking day.

      Yes, fleeters can bash miners. Yes RIPS don't need Deut. No, I would rather be bashed to the ground and turn off the mines while I am offline or v-mode than sell my Deut to someone who acts like that.

      What you might not see is that if all miners stop selling Deut then fleeters will have to buy it from the merchant and flying will become more expensive. Maybe they won't even be able to fleetsave properly and get crashed, go into v-mode or merchant part of their fleet.


      baal wrote:

      let me clarify what i mean by being messed about.

      It is hard to find good steady traders on both sides of the game. But once you do it is a cool aspect of the game that I enjoy.


      Without Contraries is no progression
    • Tezcatlipoca wrote:

      What you might not see is that if all miners stop selling Deut then fleeters will have to buy it from the merchant and flying will become more expensive. Maybe they won't even be able to fleetsave properly and get crashed, go into v-mode or merchant part of their fleet.
      By all miners, are you including those that are supposedly would be allies of the said fleeters? Cuz if miners from a given ally refuse to help their own team mates (fleeters), then they might not be called allies for much longer..

      On topic, I'd go half way and stick with 2.5/1.5/1 rates, and no half deut consumption (if you built a big fleet that you can't afford, then it's your problem for not thinking about it before)

      Anonymous Potato wrote:

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    • Why not add in the suggestion my idea too? double standards? or you have problems only with this?

      why not add: ALWAYS THE HIGHER RANKED PLAYER TO SEND THE PAYMENT FIRST? and this way he would not be able to get the deut, merch it, and with the resulted crystal to pay for it, no matter what rates you would change,

      oh i get it because this is mass used in the mass alliances r-b/jeb/asses/btmi , getting crystal and deut for zero use of your own resources is very nice

      its hilarious

      i say you all bring back in da staff the former friends of yours kaldor, florence, wraith, and on top of that poke valent and others to change the rules how you want them, but be very careful to think everything trough, not cry 3 days after about something else, like the "best alliance ever" "when bibas logged in on all their accounts and chose rigel for them"

      So open a new suggestion and make this "very demanded change of rule" and complete it with my suggestion too, and this way we all shake hands and work for a objective better playing style in this game.

      p.s.FetcHDD, i know you know everything, but i tell you that the biggest miner in TBH is merching too, and he is not trading 1 piece of any resources with me, on top, he has from what i know his traders too in uni1, and he wasnt targeted, neither kicked, nor threatened to leave the deut traders alone, and also to sell me all his deuts, and on top i am paying top trade rates to a lot of traders, not the bully 2/1/1 rate.

      flaming/trolling~warned
      T4NK was here

      Great King Pat wrote:

      For the record, no such scrap push hits have ever happened in ASSASSIN NOR would they be tolerated as long as i am leader. Everyone over here cares enough about the game to know right from wrong on this issue.

      Uni 1 will be like a prison & Urza will be the big black guy that wants to bum u in da ass. Avoid at all costs. ;)

      The post was edited 1 time, last by T4NK ().