Team's apathy to deal with in-game insults and real life threats

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  • @Revolutionary Lancer,

    I'm not entirely sure what you mean by me invalidating someone's "difference of experience". Are you saying that those who have not experienced having to deal with that kind of behaviour should somehow be allowed to speak on behalf of those who have? Exactly whose experiences are being invalidated?

    This isn't a matter of rhetorics alone, though. I certainly agree that 'virtual' threats should be taken seriously, but this behaviour moves well beyond the boundaries of the virtual world, or has the potential to do so (again, not sure what has happened in Kallisto exactly).

    I very much disagree that anyone needs to get "thicker skins" when it comes to RL threats. We are not talking about insults here, and the two should not be confused. We are talking about threats, to your life outside the game. To your job, your family, your health. There have been more than one example of these threats moving beyond the virtual sphere, and they need to be taken seriously -- and NOT be dismissed as "thin-skinned reactions". That is victim blaming at its worst, and it can be incredibly dangerous.

    As for taking legal action, it shouldn't have to come to that. Thus, I expect, the (in my opinion completely reasonable) attempt to speak up on the forum.
  • can i just ask the people involved in the RL threats

    have you divulged your personal details to anyone? i mean home address or place of work. not much anyone can do if you have.

    but i suppose it could narrow down your field of search for the culprit.
    TOP 1 (solo) x 2 (ACS) x 1
    TOP 10 (solo) x 3 (ACS) x 9
    Super Adv x 61
    Adv x 282
    Basic x 1693

    RIP KILLS 6281



  • I cant agree more with what Sif has said through His/Her post,

    @improve
    Telling people to get a thicker skin is no where acceptable in where some one is getting real Life threats, Banter and trolling is one thing. That is something most of us deal with on a daily basis on the internet and/or in RL, There have been many documented case where people for what ever reason through the means of the internet killed and harm people, Regardless of how careful people are,

    Knowing FarfetchD and HarleyGirl, the little amount I do, I am 99% sure they would not be making this type of post if it was not really bothering them,

    I hope the current COMA responds to this post quite soon as I really think this is something that need to be address to GF as soon as possible.
    "In the End, We Will Remember Not The Screams Of Our Enemies, But the Silence Of Our Friends".
  • facebook or other social media?

    did you sell him something on ebay?

    its so easy to cross reference nowadays. and everybody so willing to share their details to buy a cheap phone ... or w/e

    if you are sure you haven't let your security slip, then its all hot air from this person.
    TOP 1 (solo) x 2 (ACS) x 1
    TOP 10 (solo) x 3 (ACS) x 9
    Super Adv x 61
    Adv x 282
    Basic x 1693

    RIP KILLS 6281



  • Thanks for everyone's opinion on this.

    And to clear up a few things.... I have extremely thick skin. I was even referred to today as being the "Zen" one of my alliance. My feathers don't ruffle easily. And I can hold my own in almost any situation.

    Normal game trolling & smack talk in game about the game itself is part of the game...how boring would it be if you didn't have that?

    But when someone receives DAILY threats for SEVERAL MONTHS to not only themselves but to their family too, things have gone too far. Someones screw has completely come loose. Then those threats are taken even further and now several people in the alliance are getting them.... It wears on you....at 1st you laugh it off, then you become annoyed with it but whatever, its a game, & then finally, you have just had enough. Meanwhile, you have been reporting this, day after day...week after week...month after month...until finally you are done.

    Guess what, we as a team are done! We don't want to deal with this anymore & we shouldn't have to.

    We are bringing this to the forum because after reporting & reporting & reporting & reporting...we are reporting yet again. We are trying to get action & where else to get that, but here
  • @harley13girl

    this is my last comment on this matter. and i am saying this purely to put your mind at rest. hopefully.

    this is hypothetical ...

    but if i was gonna track someone down in RL to cause them harm

    i wouldn't be giving that person advanced warning.

    you've been receiving threats for months now.

    i don't think this guy has any intention of doing anything.

    GL with GF anyway.

    bye
    TOP 1 (solo) x 2 (ACS) x 1
    TOP 10 (solo) x 3 (ACS) x 9
    Super Adv x 61
    Adv x 282
    Basic x 1693

    RIP KILLS 6281



  • if it is about payment " errors" then GF is fast and relentless, but for this noone seems home to help out.

    These are paying customers Gameforge, or at least a few of them, maybe doing some service for your customers would be the correct thing to do to keep them playing and paying ??

    There are also innocent little children playing here, what do they have to think about this ? that it is normal to do this all ??

    This whole situation in Kallisto and also other unis regarding this problems are just sickening. Maybe nothing can be doen about it, but at least show us you try , and try harder...

    Sadly some here are just sick in their heads, hope they are not like that in real life also, i pitty them, and hope they look for professional help to solve their mental state to healthy again.
  • Hmm.. most that have replied here focused too much on the insults and threats, and as annoying and disgusting some of the stuff might be, we overall can cope with it, one way or another.

    The main concern was rather the lack of support from the staff on this matter, as harley mentioned. But now, with asto as the new GO, we have finally witnessed one of those accounts getting banned. Did it solve the problem? Probably not. But as meaningless it might be, it's a start.

    Anonymous Potato wrote:

    I'm sorry, we don't offer support for ogame anymore as the DPA prevents us
  • @Sif, don't misconstrue what I write, reread my TL;DR post if you have to, but I articulate what I write with purpose. If you need me to be absolutely explicit about it, I will. Just because somebody doesn't harbour the same life experiences as you, doesn't mean their third-person perspective can't offer you insight. "Virtual threats" are real threats, the scope of the Internet may incorporate the concept of cyber space, but exists in a real spatial and temporal sense; as such, the cyberspace, virtual world, and Internet itself are a manifestation of reality and reality itself. I didn't imply rhetoric was the issue, I said it is basis for purposeful judgement in deeming an IP ban; in the sense of a zero tolerance policy.

    Seriously, if you're going to paraphrase me, at least do it with appropriate syntax.

    Thicker skins or "spines" in regards to insults, threats should be treated with zero tolerance regardless of validity.

    It's all exactly that, though, paraphrasing me with re-appropriated syntax. You said exactly what I said, but twisted my writ to iterate your opinion; your opinion. Yes, we're talking about reality, so get opinions out of here. This is a legal issue, and GameForge needs to respond with haste; if Farfetch'd and Co. committed their portion of due process, GameForge has legal obligations to pursue actions to rectify the issue. There isn't any "shouldn't have to," it's a matter of business law, and failure to comply carries hefty penalties. Do not down-play the severity of the situation in benefit to a corporation that fails to comply, when the law must be equally applied to "persons" inclusive of both sentient & conscience beings and corporations.

    Now, please, stop being silly.

    Endearing regards,
    RL

    Trouble wrote:

    Sounds like an expert clicker to me :D

    Doc Brown wrote:

    I have read several of your posts elsewhere over a number of years. I find your mental state to be disturbing and you probably need professional help.
    What you write in the spam section doesn't have much impact on the game as a whole ... But I don't like to see you attempting to influence normal players in universe 1.
  • Revolutionary Lancer wrote:

    "Virtual threats" are real threats
    Not really. For a virtual "I'm going to kill you" there would be pretty much nothing done. Both parties are anonymus and don't have any info about the other party, where they live, their name, anything you need to actually make the threat true. As long as nothing of that is obtained/posted by the threatining party the police wouldn't really care.

    I don't know if you guys know, but you can ignore players ingame. Open the player in the galaxy, go over his name, "ignore player". If you do that he would create a new account on a daily basis and make it a bit harder for him to spam all of you.
    For what the GOs do or not do, I can't say anything because I don't have access to the uni/ticketsystem/informations for these cases.

    Board Admin
    OGame-Tech Chief
  • NoMoreAngel wrote:

    Not really. For a virtual "I'm going to kill you" there would be pretty much nothing done. Both parties are anonymus and don't have any info about the other party, where they live, their name, anything you need to actually make the threat true. As long as nothing of that is obtained/posted by the threatining party the police wouldn't really care.
    WOW....JUST WOW

    If you are going to make statements like that, you need to be removed as a mod....I have not included details in public, but trust me, we wouldn't be raising this up if it was a few "im going to kill you" in game threats! :censored: Dismissing the issue at hand. I already had very little respect for you as in the past another mod had to apologize for you, but now as you show your true colors, you have shown not just me, but the community at large :censored:

    Just an fyi...with the internet these days & very little info about someone, i can find where they live, where their parents live, where they like to go out to eat & so on... Once again, please make sure you know what you are talking about before you open your mouth.


    I don't know about anyone else, but I feel that you need to apologize for your statement, because it is just unacceptable.
    I understand you feel strongly on the subject but please no insults. -Clittle

    The post was edited 1 time, last by clittle ().

  • Wow NMA, in this day and age there is very little difference between the off- and online lives of people. I can't even begin to describe how wrong you are.
    You're saying if my kids get threatened online, it's not important and I should do nothing, or nothing can be done about it? You bet your ass I will do something.

    You (Mods speaking in the name of GF, as well as GF itself) should act like the protective parent and work not only about prevention, but also make sure that IF it happens, swift and immediate action is taken.
  • on-line trolls have been prosecuted in my country. they can be traced. whether GF have the will or the ability - i don't know. but if the threats are affecting your well-being, you can report this to the police - as mentioned by others.
    TOP 1 (solo) x 2 (ACS) x 1
    TOP 10 (solo) x 3 (ACS) x 9
    Super Adv x 61
    Adv x 282
    Basic x 1693

    RIP KILLS 6281



  • NoMoreAngel wrote:

    Revolutionary Lancer wrote:

    "Virtual threats" are real threats
    Not really. For a virtual "I'm going to kill you" there would be pretty much nothing done.
    NMA here in the states "We take that seriously"
    Something a he say she say crap where someone says online "I'm Gonna Come Kill You" well guess what , I do say bring it & I got something waiting if that person want to come try :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

    I AIN'T JOKING EITHER!!!!
    Life a bitch so get used to it :)
  • oh yeh

    and some TV reporters tracked down two of them recently. followed them around with their cameras and shamed them on national TV .

    one of them was a boring middle-aged saddo claiming state benefits, and the other was an overweight kid of about 20, with a face that would blow off man-hole covers :rofl:
    TOP 1 (solo) x 2 (ACS) x 1
    TOP 10 (solo) x 3 (ACS) x 9
    Super Adv x 61
    Adv x 282
    Basic x 1693

    RIP KILLS 6281



  • "on-line trolls have been prosecuted in my country. they can be traced. whether GF have the will or the ability - i don't know. but if the threats are affecting your well-being, you can report this to the police - as mentioned by others." - Baal

    GameForge has the capacity to view and check IP addresses; the ToS forbid the use of third-party software inclusive of VPN, IP-masking, and IP-latching. As a result, FameJorge has the ability to actively check, report, and monitor IP addresses; this more than likely includes in-game activity, as each sign-in is based off of one IP and updates every sign-in. That being the case, any staff or volunteer personnel with the capability of viewing IP addresses should be able to use some very simplistic SOP to determine whether the IP address is dynamic or static; if it is the former, mods should be allowed to use their "discretion" to identify a consistently changing IP as a ToS violation.

    Of course, as always, don't bash on the volunteer staff, when they're pretty much loyalty bound to a corporation. I don't believe NMA was trying to ruffle feathers, just a bit of damage control and input on how to deal with the situation. That doesn't diminish the lingering effects of actual threats; we're not going to attach "real" or "virtual" as an adverb for "threat," because threats are still threats.

    Trouble wrote:

    Sounds like an expert clicker to me :D

    Doc Brown wrote:

    I have read several of your posts elsewhere over a number of years. I find your mental state to be disturbing and you probably need professional help.
    What you write in the spam section doesn't have much impact on the game as a whole ... But I don't like to see you attempting to influence normal players in universe 1.
  • harley13girl wrote:

    NoMoreAngel wrote:

    Not really. For a virtual "I'm going to kill you" there would be pretty much nothing done. Both parties are anonymus and don't have any info about the other party, where they live, their name, anything you need to actually make the threat true. As long as nothing of that is obtained/posted by the threatining party the police wouldn't really care.
    WOW....JUST WOW
    If you are going to make statements like that, you need to be removed as a mod....I have not included details in public, but trust me, we wouldn't be raising this up if it was a few "im going to kill you" in game threats! YOU are part of the problem! Dismissing the issue at hand. I already had very little respect for you as in the past another mod had to apologize for you, but now as you show your true colors, you have shown not just me, but the community at large, what a complete and worthless person you are.

    Just an fyi...with the internet these days & very little info about someone, i can find where they live, where their parents live, where they like to go out to eat & so on... Once again, please make sure you know what you are talking about before you open your mouth.

    I don't know about anyone else, but I feel that you need to apologize for your statement, because it is just unacceptable.
    Let me elaborate a bit: The GF takes the IP, E-Mail-adress, the username and textlogs with them and goes to the police and then they report it (german police because the GF is a german company). Then the police would need to file it to Interpol, they then would need to contact the police of country X where threats might even be legal. (all this on the assumption the user isn't use a proxy)
    What do you think how long this would take and what effect this would have? In germany "threats" can have the consequences of up to 1 year in prison or you would be fined for x euro (the later being the more common).
    I currently don't know if the GF can even report it legally, for example if you hurt someone physically, the victim must report it, nobody else can. This could be the case here to, but I don't know

    Now with all the complicated legal stuff out of the way: You know that you can pursue legal actions yourself? If you aren't satisfied by the GF not taking legal action, why don't you do it on your own?

    chaosk wrote:

    You're saying if my kids get threatened online, it's not important and I should do nothing, or nothing can be done about it? You bet your ass I will do something.
    You understood it, take action, don't wait for a third party to do something.



    And once again: I don't know what the person wrote ingame, I have 0 informations about that. As for the ingame punishment: I also have no clue (and won't have any, because the GOs aren't allowed to tell me details about accounts either) if there was done something, if things were ignored by the GO/SGO or if someone thought they aren't worth doing things.


    Endword: The punishment for "Threats" (Bedrohung in german legal terms) is less than the punishment for "stalking" (it isn't really called like that in german law, but there is no translation for "nachstellung" which would be the german law term). Thats just something to consider, if you want to take action yourself (the punishments might be different in your country)

    Board Admin
    OGame-Tech Chief
  • I guess it’s my turn I know that my reply will not be satisfying to most of you and that it will be seen as an attempt to defend the Team and GF, but it is not. I will simply try to make you understand why we do what we do and based on what.


    First, there is no legal BS. The legal part of it all is very serious and it’s what keeps us all safe. I am aware that your least favourite ticket reply is the one regarding the DPA, but we have unlimited liability for every breach of the DPA, hence the so-called secrecy. What is no secret is that all the legal aspect of OGame is available to every user as not so easy read on the following link agbserver.gameforge.com/enGB-Imprint-OGame.html

    There you can read the following (something good for every user to know in case of need):

    “The data controller according to the Federal Data Protection Act is Gameforge 4D GmbH, Albert-Nestler-Strasse 8, 76131 Karlsruhe. In case you have any questions concerning privacy policy issues, please contact datenschutz@gameforge.com. At this address, you can inquire about privacy issues and review, change or delete your personal data stored by Gameforge. Alternatively, you can also contact us using the above postal address. Please - if possible – indicate the online game that you have played, the server and your player name. This will cause you no other costs than the transmission costs stated in the base rates (i.e. the costs of your Internet, e-mail, mobile phone or telephone connection).”

    Second, tickets and ingame reports. Creating a ticket in order to report that Player A sent an abusive ingame message to Player B, and you are not either of them, will not get you any results. Only the players concerned can receive support and information regarding their particular accounts and pending cases. I know it sounds harsh, unfair and whatnot, but how would any of you feel if we gave away your information to players reporting something about you?

    Another thing I often write in a ticket is that ingame messages are dealt with ingame. Copy/paste, screenshots or vivid descriptions of what the message said are not valid evidence and will not be considered.

    Third, the case at hand. Abuse, real-life or virtual is never a nice thing and I personally disagree that anyone should learn to become immune to it. But dealing with it is also a challenge. I have seen that some of you proposed IP bans, but what if the person who went into all the trouble of creating such account is smart enough to hide their IP address and location by using anonymisation services? We cannot ban an entire company. That is why the use of VPN and proxy servers is strictly forbidden by the Terms and Conditions.

    What if they create the account, send the abusive message and put the account into delete mode? It’s no secret that sometimes our response time is not fast and by the time we investigate there is no evidence left.

    I understand the frustration, trust me, since I am a GA I have received some pretty disturbing and graphic pm’s on the board, so I know how it feels. The best solution we have is to understand and help each other. Make ingame reports as soon as it happens and create a ticket. If you don’t receive a reply within 48 hours or you believe that the case is not handled well, poke the GO/SGO/GA on Irc. But please have understanding for the Team, successfully juggling RL and being held accountable for every action in your favourite past-time is not easy. That’s why sometimes investigations take longer, because we need to make sure that no mistakes are made.

    P.S. If NoMoreAngel talks about the GF, he means the GF and not any voluntary teamler but only the company. In case anyone thought he meant the voluntary Team.

    "Let me be clear as I can be: In politics and in life, ignorance is not a virtue. It's not cool to not know what you're talking about."
  • as ii said before, stop being pansies and taking RL threats so seriously.

    i loved the comment "Wow NMA, in this day and age there is very little difference between the off- and online lives of people. " ---------- this is just sad, online and offline should not be merged into one, but again this is just my opinion. my opinion is when i look at a computer screen its normally for fun or doing some work emails. apart from that i communicate with people in the real world

    so again i say this, get on with the threats and stop being a little pansy



    thanks for the sig blackadder you nubber