Battlecruisers

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    • Battlecruisers

      I really don't get them. They are roughly 33% cheaper than a Destroyer, but you need three Battlecruisers to kill on Destroyer so any advantage gained from resources is lost because with the inferior attack value. The Battlecruiser has more speed, I'll grant you, but the Destroyer has a Cargo bay more than twice the size. What's the point of Battlecruisers, please? Why would I build them over Destroyers which I can pump out at a rate of around 100 a day? This is meant as an honest question, not a criticism of Battlecruisers.
    • Pretty simple. They are very fast, cheap to fly and has RF for days allowing them to plow through enemy fleets with ease.

      Sure, the dest will beat a BC in one-on-one combat. Most combats don't work like that though. Think bigger scale.

      E.g.
      At hyper lvl 15, flying 100.000 Dest 100 systems, costs 138 million deut and takes 2h2m (at 1x speed)
      With the same techs and distance, you can either fly 200.000 BC (about the same effective firepower) for half the deut cost and a flighttime of just 1h26m (saving you almost 40 minutes!). Or you can go with 400.000 BC (twice the effective firepower) for the same deut as the dest, and still shave off almost 40 minutes of the flight.

      It should be a no-brainer to see that in many scenarios, the much shorter flight time and conservative deut consumption of BCs will be a better choice than the dests.
      I rarely use Dests for spy'n'fly attacks, since an equivalent amount of BCs has a higher chance of hitting, and a much smaller amount of wasted deut if the target comes online. On the other hand, Dest are king for well-planned hits, so both have their uses.


      Edit: Also noteworthy to add that it would be borderline retardation going up against a Dest fleet with BC. The BC is the strongest ship in the game except against Dest or RIP. If going against Dest, you need to trade out some of the BC for LF.
      56G TD, Top 1 solo
      61G TD, Top 1 ACS

      Kamil wrote:

      Authority and rules are created to be opposed :D
    • Again the argument doesn't stack up. It might cost me 138 million deut as opposed to 69 million for the BC but those 100K Dessies are going to grab an additional 125 million units of resources, more than making up for the additional fuel use. Just consider that for a moment. For the sake of just over half hour extra journey I'm getting more than 2.5x the amount of resources. Now sure, you can argue that you can build an additional 5K extra Large Cargoes which use an additional 250K fuel, thus making a considerable saving but since I need twice as many BC as Dessies to kill one Plasma, that means the only benefit I'm getting is time. It's actually costing me more deut to raid the same amount of resources with BC as it will with Dessies, all to save 40 mins. Where's the sense in that?

      I recognise that there must be some benefit to them otherwise they wouldn't be in the game but it escapes me as to what it is.
    • Usually you send first the firepower and clean the opponents fleet and then with cargo fleet you grab the res.
      There are only some scenarios when I would send dessies in 100ss or more attacking trip - it costs just too much and it is very often then the defender comes only minutes after the hit and takes also a part of the DF so the attacking time is very important. With dessies it is much bigger chance to miss the hit.
      Actually you can kill bigger fleet (in numbers) with BC than with dessies, except the defender has rips and dessies in larger amount.
    • NoMoreAngel wrote:

      BCs aren't for farming defences or so, they are for hitting fleets. There you need speed. Thats why you choose BCs over desis for fleets, if you want to farm defences/planets you use desis.

      As I pointed out, one Plasma is worth more than four BC, and takes considerably resources and less time to build than four BCs, so why wouldn't I just build a crap load of defences?
    • JuliusTiberius wrote:

      Again the argument doesn't stack up. It might cost me 138 million deut as opposed to 69 million for the BC but those 100K Dessies are going to grab an additional 125 million units of resources, more than making up for the additional fuel use.
      Even if that was a relevant argument, sending 3x as many BC as Dest has BOTH more cargo space AND less fuel consumption.

      JuliusTiberius, the only person whose arguments doesn't stack up, are yours. I don't know whether this is just due to inexperience, or a refusal to listen, but by now several players have chimed in to support BCs, among which are both very knowledgeable and high ranking players. A single look at the HoF section of any universe will further prove that BCs is one of the most popular ship types, holding a very noticeable and valuable role in any successful fleeter's arsenal. Sure, the Dest is on paper clearly the best in a BC-vs-Dest scenario, but in 9.999 times of out 10.000, that is a fictitious scenario, and in many, many, many real everyday scenarios, BCs form an integral part of a successful fleet.
      56G TD, Top 1 solo
      61G TD, Top 1 ACS

      Kamil wrote:

      Authority and rules are created to be opposed :D
    • Look as others have pointed out every ship has a place and function in game LF HF Crsrs. B.S. and B.C. all are great for going after fleets. desys are great to add for going after rips and defenses on planets or moons.
      at some point if all you build is desys then your stuck with a high fleet save cost very high attack cost and if you get mock attacked and move your fleet a few times and back then your out of fuel and have then made your desys into sitting ducks. A balanced fleet is a better option. 400 to 500k lf 400 to 500k hf. 300k crsrs. 250k bs 250k desys 350kl bc. 900k recyc. 80 to 90k probes. and 75 to 90 k sc and 90 to 150k lc. and 3 or 4 hundred rips.

      me personally if I'm going after lets say your desy fleet and you have 300k desy I.m going to send my lf.s hf.s and b.s my crsrs. and more than likely 90k bmbrs just to off set the S.I. calculations in the combat formula.

      I'm not pretty I'm not graceful I am the inevitable fact of truth.there is no unwinnable situation.
      ogame.support.gameforge.com/en

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Blackmass ().

    • There is none so deaf as one who doesn't want to hear.

      Bcrs and Des are essential to any fleeter, but each has a specialty as explained in all the responses from experienced players. If you don't want to benefit from that experience so be it.
      ~The strong take from the weak, but the smart take from the strong~

      U44/Quant/Jup/Betel HOF's = 575~ ~ ~480 Solo [10 Top 10] / 95 ACS [4 x #1 + 11 Top 10]
      ~~ RIP 7007+
    • Dark Depresion wrote:

      JuliusTiberius wrote:

      Again the argument doesn't stack up. It might cost me 138 million deut as opposed to 69 million for the BC but those 100K Dessies are going to grab an additional 125 million units of resources, more than making up for the additional fuel use.
      Even if that was a relevant argument, sending 3x as many BC as Dest has BOTH more cargo space AND less fuel consumption.
      JuliusTiberius, the only person whose arguments doesn't stack up, are yours. I don't know whether this is just due to inexperience, or a refusal to listen, but by now several players have chimed in to support BCs, among which are both very knowledgeable and high ranking players. A single look at the HoF section of any universe will further prove that BCs is one of the most popular ship types, holding a very noticeable and valuable role in any successful fleeter's arsenal. Sure, the Dest is on paper clearly the best in a BC-vs-Dest scenario, but in 9.999 times of out 10.000, that is a fictitious scenario, and in many, many, many real everyday scenarios, BCs form an integral part of a successful fleet.

      Vulcan_558 wrote:

      There is none so deaf as one who doesn't want to hear.

      Bcrs and Des are essential to any fleeter, but each has a specialty as explained in all the responses from experienced players. If you don't want to benefit from that experience so be it.

      OK so I made this sim for the OP to follow

      I'm not pretty I'm not graceful I am the inevitable fact of truth.there is no unwinnable situation.
      ogame.support.gameforge.com/en
    • Blackmass wrote:

      Look as others have pointed out every ship has a place and function in game LF HF Crsrs. B.S. and B.C. all are great for going after fleets. desys are great to add for going after rips and defenses on planets or moons.
      at some point if all you build is desys then your stuck with a high fleet save cost very high attack cost and if you get mock attacked and move your fleet a few times and back then your out of fuel and have then made your desys into sitting ducks. A balanced fleet is a better option. 400 to 500k lf 400 to 500k hf. 300k crsrs. 250k bs 250k desys 350kl bc. 900k recyc. 80 to 90k probes. and 75 to 90 k sc and 90 to 150k lc. and 3 or 4 hundred rips.

      me personally if I'm going after lets say your desy fleet and you have 300k desy I.m going to send my lf.s hf.s and b.s my crsrs. and more than likely 90k bmbrs just to off set the S.I. calculations in the combat formula.

      How about you look because I asked a question seeking understanding and made it explicitly clear I'm not arguing against BCs, I'm seeking to understand were they fit in. The Wiki states they are Anti-ship but logically if I need 3x as many to kill the mainstay of most fleets they aren't very good at their role. You assume I'm stupid enough to have a fleet of 300K dessies without another ship. I'm not. I'm new, not stupid and I would ask you to respect as much. Same goes for the rest of you because some of the posts on here are becoming highly disrespectful. I'm willing to listen but I'm not going to sit here mute and not put across counter arguments as I see them in order to ensure I understand something.


      You can send 1 million BCs after my Dessies, I'll murder them with my 500K Dessies. You can have 10 trillion fighters, so will I. Where do BC fit in? Give me a specific example of where you would use BC and explain to me why you would use them in those circumstances over any other ship? Perhaps then I can understand their role. Or don't bother replying if you people can't do so respectfully.
    • JuliusTiberius wrote:

      How about you look because I asked a question seeking understanding and made it explicitly clear I'm not arguing against BCs, I'm seeking to understand were they fit in. The Wiki states they are Anti-ship but logically if I need 3x as many to kill the mainstay of most fleets they aren't very good at their role. You assume I'm stupid enough to have a fleet of 300K dessies without another ship. I'm not. I'm new, not stupid and I would ask you to respect as much. Same goes for the rest of you because some of the posts on here are becoming highly disrespectful. I'm willing to listen but I'm not going to sit here mute and not put across counter arguments as I see them in order to ensure I understand something.


      You can send 1 million BCs after my Dessies, I'll murder them with my 500K Dessies. You can have 10 trillion fighters, so will I. Where do BC fit in? Give me a specific example of where you would use BC and explain to me why you would use them in those circumstances over any other ship? Perhaps then I can understand their role. Or don't bother replying if you people can't do so respectfully.
      Let me be clear about one thing before I proceed. So far your ONLY argument have been Dest being better in a Dest VS. BC situation - which is correct, but a non-argument, since you would never send BCs to kill a Dest fleet in the first place. Try to see behind your non-argument, and see a picture both much bigger and more grounded in reality.

      BCs are cheaper to fly (even in amounts enough to off-set the cargo capacity advantage by the Dest)
      BCs are much, much faster
      BCs are much better at fleet killing than Dest (with the Dest being better at countering RIPs, defences or BCs)
      If up against an equal value fleet, the BCs RF is an incredibly strong advantage, whereas Dest is of the the least cost/effective ships of the game (meaning for the same cost, you get a stronger fleet building just about anything other than Dest -> Dest are ONLY good if you have a massive size advantage over your opponent)
      They are a real bitch to build due to their atrocious ressource distribution, but by now we've had 10 years to test the BC, and guess what? The results are pretty clear, the BC is a huge part of any top fleet, because it is a really, really good ship to have. If it wasn't we top fleeters wouldn't be building several hundreds of thousands, and in speed universes even million+ of the bastards.

      Dest are good, and should definitely still be an integral part of any fleet, but its use is limited for few and far between hits with massive profits, while the BCs is the grunt of the heavies, the ship you use almost all the time to rake in a smaller profit more often accumulating to a much bigger profit over time. If I was forced to choose between never building any Dest on an account, or never building any BCs on an account, I wouldn't even have to think about it. I would choose to exclude the Dests without missing a heartbeat, because the BCs has so much more variety in their use, and would undoubtedly prove the less harmful choice to both my profits and FS costs.
      56G TD, Top 1 solo
      61G TD, Top 1 ACS

      Kamil wrote:

      Authority and rules are created to be opposed :D
    • They are fast, as fast as Battleships. They get rapid fire against almost all other ships. They are a souped up Battleship.

      Destroyers get rapid fire against them, that's why in a fight between the two the Destroyers are so much better.

      If you look for targets of opportunity then you use Battlecruisers, if you need to be quick then you use Battlecruisers.

      If you hit cargo fleets then you use Battlecruisers and Small Cargo's.

      An attack ships cargo capacity dictates how far you can send it, not how much res it will grab when you are fleeting. You just send extra cargo's for the res.

      If you play in a speed uni then Destroyers may be the way to go, but in a 1x uni Battlecruisers are King!
    • .

      Dark Depresion wrote:

      JuliusTiberius wrote:

      How about you look because I asked a question seeking understanding and made it explicitly clear I'm not arguing against BCs, I'm seeking to understand were they fit in. The Wiki states they are Anti-ship but logically if I need 3x as many to kill the mainstay of most fleets they aren't very good at their role. You assume I'm stupid enough to have a fleet of 300K dessies without another ship. I'm not. I'm new, not stupid and I would ask you to respect as much. Same goes for the rest of you because some of the posts on here are becoming highly disrespectful. I'm willing to listen but I'm not going to sit here mute and not put across counter arguments as I see them in order to ensure I understand something.


      You can send 1 million BCs after my Dessies, I'll murder them with my 500K Dessies. You can have 10 trillion fighters, so will I. Where do BC fit in? Give me a specific example of where you would use BC and explain to me why you would use them in those circumstances over any other ship? Perhaps then I can understand their role. Or don't bother replying if you people can't do so respectfully.
      Let me be clear about one thing before I proceed. So far your ONLY argument have been Dest being better in a Dest VS. BC situation - which is correct, but a non-argument, since you would never send BCs to kill a Dest fleet in the first place. Try to see behind your non-argument, and see a picture both much bigger and more grounded in reality.
      BCs are cheaper to fly (even in amounts enough to off-set the cargo capacity advantage by the Dest)
      BCs are much, much faster
      BCs are much better at fleet killing than Dest (with the Dest being better at countering RIPs, defences or BCs)
      If up against an equal value fleet, the BCs RF is an incredibly strong advantage, whereas Dest is of the the least cost/effective ships of the game (meaning for the same cost, you get a stronger fleet building just about anything other than Dest -> Dest are ONLY good if you have a massive size advantage over your opponent)
      They are a real bitch to build due to their atrocious ressource distribution, but by now we've had 10 years to test the BC, and guess what? The results are pretty clear, the BC is a huge part of any top fleet, because it is a really, really good ship to have. If it wasn't we top fleeters wouldn't be building several hundreds of thousands, and in speed universes even million+ of the bastards.

      Dest are good, and should definitely still be an integral part of any fleet, but its use is limited for few and far between hits with massive profits, while the BCs is the grunt of the heavies, the ship you use almost all the time to rake in a smaller profit more often accumulating to a much bigger profit over time. If I was forced to choose between never building any Dest on an account, or never building any BCs on an account, I wouldn't even have to think about it. I would choose to exclude the Dests without missing a heartbeat, because the BCs has so much more variety in their use, and would undoubtedly prove the less harmful choice to both my profits and FS costs.

      Don't be so damn patronising. It's not an non-argument, it's the crux of the argument. You are telling me not to send a ship against a fleet of Destroyers because it'll fail, whilst at the same time codeming me for arguing you wouldn't send the same ship against a fleet of Destroyers because it would fail. Look let me try rephrase the question. The BC is not for Raiding, that's what's been established here. The BS and Destroyer are, backed up with Cruisers and Fighters, yes? So if that's coming at me, if a fleet of Destroyers and Battleships is heading to my planet, like for like numbers aren't going to cut it. I need three times more BC or a crap load more fodder than my opponent. So what exactly would I be defending against using the BC?

      The post was edited 3 times, last by JuliusTiberius ().

    • JuliusTiberius wrote:

      You still haven't give me an example scenario where I would use them. I'm not saying they're bad, I'm saying I don't know where they fit in in the context of Destroyer-heavy fleets, a ship you admit they cannot kill and would not be sent against. It's a simple question. If everyone was using BS, Cruiser and Fighter fleets I'd know exactly where to use them. I'd have a fleet of them ready to go, but they aren't, they're all destroyer, BS, Cruiser and Fighter, at least the ones that attacked me. So again I ask you - all of you - within that context, where would I use the Battlecruiser?
      It is literally right here in what I wrote before. Primary points highlighted in yellow and secondary points highlighted in tan for those having the reading comprehension equivalent of a toddler.

      Dark Depresion wrote:

      Let me be clear about one thing before I proceed. So far your ONLY argument have been Dest being better in a Dest VS. BC situation - which is correct, but a non-argument, since you would never send BCs to kill a Dest fleet in the first place. Try to see behind your non-argument, and see a picture both much bigger and more grounded in reality.
      BCs are cheaper to fly (even in amounts enough to off-set the cargo capacity advantage by the Dest)
      BCs are much, much faster

      BCs are much better at fleet killing than Dest (with the Dest being better at countering RIPs, defences or BCs)
      If up against an equal value fleet, the BCs RF is an incredibly strong advantage, whereas Dest is of the the least cost/effective ships of the game (meaning for the same cost, you get a stronger fleet building just about anything other than Dest -> Dest are ONLY good if you have a massive size advantage over your opponent)

      They are a real bitch to build due to their atrocious ressource distribution, but by now we've had 10 years to test the BC, and guess what? The results are pretty clear, the BC is a huge part of any top fleet, because it is a really, really good ship to have. If it wasn't we top fleeters wouldn't be building several hundreds of thousands, and in speed universes even million+ of the bastards.

      Dest are good, and should definitely still be an integral part of any fleet, but its use is limited for few and far between hits with massive profits, while the BCs is the grunt of the heavies, the ship you use almost all the time to rake in a smaller profit more often accumulating to a much bigger profit over time. If I was forced to choose between never building any Dest on an account, or never building any BCs on an account, I wouldn't even have to think about it. I would choose to exclude the Dests without missing a heartbeat, because the BCs has so much more variety in their use, and would undoubtedly prove the less harmful choice to both my profits and FS costs.

      It is pretty impossible to specify further, because the BCs is literally the go-to ship for combats. BCs usually deliver the primary firepower in all fleet-vs-fleet hits (with the only, but noteworthy exceptions being having a need for a fodderwall to take on pure RIP or Dest-focused fleets).
      You mention yourself that people use a variety of Dest, BS, Cruisers and fighters to hit you. Well, the BC is the best ship in the game to counter BS, cruisers AND HF, meaning half of the aforementioned troublesome ship types. No other type of ship can brag about such good results there. It should also be noted (yet again), that Dest perform terribly against equal opponents, while BCs perform exceptionally well against them. You need a fleet advantage of at least 300-400% for the Dest to be effective, whereas the BC needs less than half that amount to turn a hit profitable.
      56G TD, Top 1 solo
      61G TD, Top 1 ACS

      Kamil wrote:

      Authority and rules are created to be opposed :D