What do you think is the cost-optimal defense ratio?

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    • What do you think is the cost-optimal defense ratio?

      So, while simming some defenses I've noticed that straight RL+LL seems to outperform basically every defense ratio you will find on the wiki against basically every attacking composition, on a cost-for-cost basis. As a result I've been recommending it to my alliance in Virgo and we're doing OK with it.

      What do you go with? How did you choose it?
    • Hi, it depends on the amount of RIP that the enemy has available. You would need about eight per rip the enemy might have if I remember correctly.
      The rest you need to see, RL and LL may help you with large fodder groups, but it really depends on what your enemy can bring.
    • Part of the problem with "what the enemy can bring" is that the potential enemy of a defense composition is anyone in the universe, and theoretically they not only could bring any composition but could choose it for your defense. So if there is a counter, you can rely on someone raiding you to choose it.

      This is why the way I think about "best defense" is least exploitable defense: the defense that is least subject to countering, by any attack composition.

      Deathstars against RL and LL, e.g., is a counter, but kind of a soft one. Each RIP can only clear about 650 RLs and LLs, while guaranteeing victory. So, sure, the other guy can win without losses, but he has to be willing to 1) use about 8-10 times the value of your defense in his attacking fleet, and also 2) wait long enough for RIPs to move. So if that's the strongest counter to a composition, it's a very effective composition!

      As it happens that's not the strongest counter. E.g. cruisers will defeat this defense with few losses at a 5:1 cost ratio.

      But you see what a hard problem it is? Trying to find the defense whose optimal counter is weak against it? Every time you adjust the defense, the optimal counter changes.

      What do you folks think?
    • Ultimately it comes down to play style and the amount of time you have to commit to "watching" your account.

      It also depends on the makeup of the universe. I could quote a variety of defence compositions that might apply to your universe. However, and like I said before, it boils down to you.

      How many resources do you produce relative to people in your universe?

      How liked/hated (and everything in between) are you in your universe?

      How often do you get probed/raided?

      How long do you go before you collect resources?


      The answers to the above will truly dictate what's required. However, there's a good rule of thumb.

      The more defences you have, the more valued your resources are to you personally. Aka, the more defences you have, the more it's perceived that you have to lose.

      Therefore it can be a good idea to have 0 defences at all, like Sarsa suggested. It shows the universe that you ultimately give 0 ****** about your production and you'll actually find that people will leave you alone more. Weird, right? But it's true.

      There's also another rule of thumb. The bigger your defence, the bigger the "challenge". You'll find sooner or later that there are a lot of folks out there who like to hit the biggest turtles as a challenge!


      Hope that helps :)


      ~ Top 10s: 13(17) + Assist on WorldWide Number 1 + Worldwide Number 2 (suicide) ~ RiPs: 80.174 ~
    • this ratio works for me.. i'm not a 100% sure why i settled on this and the Ions are not for everyone but i like shielding tech
      100 RR : 50 LL : 10 Heavy : 5 Gauss : 10 Ion : 1 Pt..
      Mainly: RR and LL for fodder (LL for mini shields..i've seen a lot of people do a 1:1 ratio where mines 2:1)
      Heavy for armor/ion for shield
      and gauss and pts as finishers or to at least draw..

      then scaled up based on your production, your rank, other people's rank, how often you log in/or move your res and any other factor you can think of..
      plus a good W/S/A.. besides it's good for Ships and IMPs (weapon at least) too, ppl forget shields come back each round, armor doesn't but is needed cause if that hits 0 thats when you lose your ship/defense


      tho i know players with little to no defense and are on a lot to make up for that.. REGARDLESS i have no idea why any active player in any uni would leave them selves up for a cargo slap even if it's only for a bit of res..

      also with defense it's more of a deterrence then a wall but sounds like you know that..i'm just saying for others that may be reading,
      main reason for defense is for the person looking at you saying what you have isn't worth the deut and/or losses..

      Best 15$ spent for no one to understand it when i wear it:
    • Ari Allyn-Feuer wrote:

      Yeah, I'm not trying to be a turtle. Defenses are dead res. I'm trying to protect my daily production for as cheap as possible. :) And more, I'm looking for thoughts on this piece of abstraction.
      Yeah always good to do!

      I would also start calculating the ratio with your solid points of the planet in mind, for when the universe progresses.

      You will likely need to be able to reliably protect sats in the long run as well in such a way you will always have enough res production so that you can rebuild them in case they are crashed. Also don't forget to include some ABM's as well ;)
    • As most already stated, it really depends on what kind of players and fleets there are in your Universe.

      But from my experience, while Bombers are incredibly useful against Defence, pretty much no one has them in huge quantities, so with that out of the way, I can tell you that the best combo against everything, in most battle situations, are RL + LL + Plasma, maybe add a few HLs in the middle. Gauss and Ion are useless, don't even bother with them, huge waste of crystal that can be used on more Plasmas or LLs and HLs or on anything else.

      Try using the SIM, it really helps.