How can people say the Light Laser is better than the Heavy Laser?

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    • How can people say the Light Laser is better than the Heavy Laser?

      Can someone actually make an argument for this? I don't want anything related to "specific" cases, because we all know that in a "specific" scenario, any ogame Ship or Defence is better than the other.

      I want to know why the vast majority of ogame players consider the LL better than the HL, when, from my point of view, in most realistic cases the HL is factually superior.
    • Grimm wrote:

      Can someone actually make an argument for this? I don't want anything related to "specific" cases, because we all know that in a "specific" scenario, any ogame Ship or Defence is better than the other.

      I want to know why the vast majority of ogame players consider the LL better than the HL, when, from my point of view, in most realistic cases the HL is factually superior.
      As with all things:
      It DependsTM
      What are you wanting to do?
      This is like comparing
      an orange to a banana
      and asking
      why the banana is better.

      LL cost less crystal.
      LL are faster to produce.
      LL are good anti-cruiser fodder.

      This is not to say they are superior.
      Only that they are useful.
      If you are a turtle,
      you will want all the defense.
      If you are a fleeter,
      you might not want any
      or just enough to cover
      your nightly production.
      In this case,
      LL are viable.

      So,
      your opinion is just as valid
      as anybody else's.
      :)
      I miss the days of numbered universes. :crying:
    • kewlness wrote:

      As with all things:

      It DependsTM


      What are you wanting to do?


      This is like comparing


      an orange to a banana


      and asking


      why the banana is better.





      LL cost less crystal.


      LL are faster to produce.


      LL are good anti-cruiser fodder.





      This is not to say they are superior.


      Only that they are useful.


      If you are a turtle,


      you will want all the defense.


      If you are a fleeter,


      you might not want any


      or just enough to cover


      your nightly production.


      In this case,


      LL are viable.





      So,


      your opinion is just as valid


      as anybody else's.


      LL costs more crystal? It costs more metal as well, but both have a Metal:Crystal ratio of 3:1. The HL costs 4x more than a LL, and with it provides 4x more Hull, 4x more Shield and 2,5x the Attack Power.

      Yes, the attack power is "only" 2.5x better than the LL for 4x the cost, but don't let this fool you. While 4 LLs do have more attack power than 1 HL, the LLs will spread their damage on the enemy ships, while the HL is more focused, for example, against a Light Fighter which is one of most widely used Ships against Turtles, 4 LLs might not be able to take it down in one round of battle because each one of them will most likely target a different ship, while a HL will have enough power to one-shot it in 1 round, removing it completely from the next round. And it also does more damage to the Hull of a Cruiser and even a Battleship, the later the LL can't even get past it's shields.

      What most people use to crack turtles are massives amounts of Light Fires, Cruisers and Destroyers (and RIPs but against RIPs, both LL and HL are equally useless). Most people are not going to use any other ships because they are really useless against Defence, unless the difference in numbers is massive, and no one uses Bombers either. And most fleeters are also quite reluctant to even use Cruisers because of how easily they get destroyed.

      Against a fleet with Destroyers, LL's fail miserably on their mission. Each time a Destroyer shoots a LL, the Destroyer has a 90%(RF of 10) chance to shoot again which can lead to scenarios where the Destroyer either keeps mowing down LLs or gets the opportunity to shoot down a Gauss or heavily damage a Plasma Turret. While the HF will get one-shot by a Destroyer but serves it's mission as fodder as it stops it from shooting again in the same round.

      You can use the Sim all you want, it's only that. A simulator. On the Sim, the LL looks the best against the majority of ships ONE ON ONE, but in a realistic scenari, with ships that people actually use to crack defences with as much profit as they can, they are not as useful as the HL. They don't serve their job as fodder, and to make the attack unprofitable, as good as the HL.

      If you want to protect your daily production as a fleeter or miner who fleetsaves, then look no further than a combo of Rockets and Plasma, that's literally all you need.

      But if you are a turtle who actually wants to use his defence to gather around some resources, the best combo is RL(to provide cover), HL(to get rid of LF fodder and also provide cover at the same time) and Plasma(to get rid of RIP RF and take out heavy ships).

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Grimm ().

    • Let me preface this by saying I am actually a HL advocate, and thinks HL is both wrongly used and underused.

      The main reason is cost/effect ratio. HL costs precisely 4x as much as LL, but doesn't have 4x better stats.
      Put simply, for the same cost, LL increases the firepower and resilience of your defence more than HL does.

      HL does have a very good feature, which is the main reason why I heavily endorse building a good bunch of HL, and that is their ability to one-shot kill LF/SC far cheaper than gauss or plasmas. A good defence deters heavy fleets through excessive fuel-costs and light fleets through heavy losses. Your ability to cause a lot of permanent damage in round 1 to those light fleets is thus very important to deterring that potential attack.

      In summary: LL IS a better unit than HL, that is an undeniable fact when looking at the numbers. Unlike Ions, HL is still important though and should be included in substantial numbers in any defence.
      56G TD, Top 1 solo
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      In order to insult me, I must first value your opinion...Nice try though.
    • Dark Depresion wrote:

      Unlike Ions, HL is still important though and should be included in substantial numbers in any defence.
      I agree with everything you said...
      except for this statement.
      Again,
      it depends.
      If you are a turtle
      you want to build Ion
      because their shields
      at higher levels
      soak up so much damage.

      It is true
      they cost a lot of crystal
      and don't do much damage
      but they keep a lot of the defense
      in the fight longer
      increasing your survivability.
      I miss the days of numbered universes. :crying:
    • Ions are useless... Period.

      Dark Depresion wrote:


      In summary: LL IS a better unit than HL, that is an undeniable fact when looking at the numbers. Unlike Ions, HL is still important though and should be included in substantial numbers in any defence.
      That's looking at the stats alone.

      Rapid Fire also plays a huge role, namely with Destroyers which is the ship that's most used to crack turtles after RIPs. And as you stated like me, their ability to one-shot LFs is also hugely underrated, not just that, they are able to damage the Hulls of even Battleships, while the LL will just waste it's shot on the shields that can regenerate every round.
    • I think the answer you're looking for is: people can be wrong. :D

      I don't think many people are thinking about the specific scenarios when building their defense, but instead just want to get nice round numbers, or at most look at the stats.

      That being said, I think of three common scenarios where LL help more than 1/4 the number of HL. 1) They provide more cover against cruisers, which is one of the main threats against turtles. 2) RIPs have 200 rapid fire against LL, and 100 rapid fire vs HL, meaning the LL are more likely to draw vs RIPs, encouraging people to look at other turtles. 3) You're on a moon and don't want to invest in more shipyard.
    • As I LF spammer I absolutely hate HL heavy defense. A large number of HL can make it so any amount of LF can't profit, yet a large number of LL can be busted by just adding more LF. Especially in high DF uni where LF spam is more common the HL becomes even more of an asset
      Uni 1
      Zibal
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