Allowed trade ratios?

  • We 've all heard that the allowed trading rates are from 3-2-1 to 2-1-1,


    The way I see it, all combinations between those two ratios are legal, such as 3-1-1 or 2-2-1 and a previous admin that I asked for his opinion agreed with me.
    Another admin though said to me that the metal:crystal 3:1 exchange rate is too high and the 2:2 is too low but values in between such as 3-1.9-1 or 2-1.5-1 are allowed.


    Now I am quite confused and I kindly ask someone who has the authority to clarify what exactly is allowed and what are the ratio limits for every kind of exchange (metal - crystal, crystal - deuterium, metal - deuterium)


    Thanks a lot!

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  • Sounds like the first one you asked might have misunderstood your question, or not being qualified for his job. That is a pretty basic thing to get so badly wrong. The second one was correct.


    Easiest way to explain: you calculate the values for both of the extremities(/rates), and everything in between is allowed.
    E.g.
    10 million deut is worth 10 million crystal or 20 million metal using 2:1:1
    10 million deut is worth 20 million crystal or 30 million metal using 3:2:1
    This means 10 million deut can be traded into 10-20 million crystal or 20-30 million metal.

  • It's quite easy to uderstand the allowed rates that deuterium can be traded but I am not yet sure what are the rates when you want to trade metal for crystal or vice versa.


    How can 3-1-1 be "too high" and not allowed (metal/crystal = 3) but 2-1.5 -1 is allowed and it's not considered "too low" (metal/crystal= 1.33)

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    The post was edited 1 time, last by Addicted Miner ().

  • It's quite easy to uderstand the allowed rates that deuterium can be traded but I am not yet sure what are the rates when you want to trade metal for crystal or vice versa.


    DD just used duet as an example. The rates he posted would be the same if you were trading metal for crystal (or vice versa).

  • Easiest way to explain: you calculate the values for both of the extremities(/rates), and everything in between is allowed.

    So
    10 million crystal is 10 million deut or 20 million metal using 2:1:1
    10 million crystal is 5 million deut or 15 million metal using 3:2:1
    Which means 10 million crystal can be traded for 5-10 million deut or 15-20 million metal


    10 million metal is 5 million deut or 5 million crystal using 2:1:1
    10 million metal is 3,34 million deut or 6,67 million crystal using 3:2:1
    Which means 10 million metal can be traded for 3,34-5 million deut or 5-6,67 million crystal


    How can 3-1-1 be "too high" and not allowed (metal/crystal = 3) but 2-1.5 -1 is allowed and it's not considered "too low" (metal/crystal= 1.33)

    3:1:1 leads to 10 million crystal becoming worth 30 million metal. Using the above, we see this is way beyond the allowed rates (where 10 million crystal has a max value of 20 million metal).
    Saying 2:1,5:1 is allowed is a bit of a simplification/misunderstanding. The mistake lies in thinking these rates are applicable for metal-crystal trades, which they aren't. These rates can only be used in trades pertaining to the acquisition and/or sale of deut.
    1 deut can be worth both 2 metal or 1,5 crystal. But 2 metal can never be worth 1,5 crystal.

  • I understand your point, you are saying that metal / crystal can be from 1.5 to 2 (3-2-1 to 2-1-1)


    In that case 2-1.5-1 is not allowed because metal / crystal = 1.33 and the admin who said that to me was probably confused.



    But here is why I still don't think that's right.
    Since 2-1-1 is allowed, then crystal CAN have the same value as deuterium.
    And deuterium CAN be exchanged for metal in a 3-1 ratio.


    So why can't we exchange metal - crystal in a 3-1 ratio? For me it doesn't make any sense.


    And even if metal-crystal 3-1 is not allowed, this could happen:


    Player A sells 3M metal to player B and gets back 1M deuterium (3-2-1) and then
    Player A sells 1M deuterium to player B and gets back 1M crystal. (2-1-1)


    Overall: Player A sold 3M metal to player B and bought 1M crystal (3-1-1) without breaking any rules since you can use a different ratio with the same player when you exchange a different combination of resourses.

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  • New Game Rules - valid from 17.9.2012
    Game Rules - Pushing:

    The highlighted part gives pretty far leeway for GOs to intervene if any form of rate manipulation goes on, including your example, as well as 3-way trades etc.



    Easiest way to explain: you calculate the values for both of the extremities(/rates), and everything in between is allowed.

    It is really not that hard to understand. ^This is pretty much all you need to know, and any attempt to get around it, is covered as being against the rules.

  • But here is why I still don't think that's right.
    Since 2-1-1 is allowed, then crystal CAN have the same value as deuterium.
    And deuterium CAN be exchanged for metal in a 3-1 ratio.


    So why can't we exchange metal - crystal in a 3-1 ratio? For me it doesn't make any sense.

    that ios easy since metal and crystal are far more abundent than deut. they are traded at much lower rates as compared to deuterium so.


    3 metal =1 deut.
    2 crystal =1 deut
    BUT
    2 metal =1 crystal if it is above that amount it is considered an unfair trade since crystal is more abundent than deut but slightly less abundent than metal.
    so thats why we have the following rates for trade
    3/2/1
    2/1.5/1
    2/1/1
    but crystal is never traded at a higher rate for metal or metal traded at a higher rate for crystal. nor is deuterium either.
    if a trade is 3 metal for 1 crystal then you have out valued the production value for the metal and over valued the crystal and inflated the market for crystal thru default.
    thats why we have a set rate for trades.


    I'm not pretty I'm not graceful I am the inevitable fact of truth.there is no unwinnable situation.
    ogame.support.gameforge.com/en

  • Thanks a lot for the replies, so far I understood almost everything!
    I think the only flaw to this is the 2-1-1 ratio. Since, as you also said, crystal is slightly more abundant than deuterium then a 1:1 crystal:deuterium ratio shouldn't be legal in my opinion.


    Anyway, I am in general a huge fan of the free market :thumbsup:


    My next question now...


    According to what Dark Depression quoted "buying expensive and selling cheaper the same resource to the same player" is forbidden

    In one of the universes I used to play before the merge I used to buy deuterium for 2.5-1.5-1


    Occasionally some of the people that were selling me deuterium needed extra crystal for their astro, and I used to sell crystal and get metal at a 1:2 ratio (10M crystal for 20M metal)


    If I get this right, what I did back then was allowed.
    What is not allowed, is to buy deuterium by selling crystal in a ratio X and then selll back this deuterium (same resource) for metal in a ratio Y.

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  • right your on track now and yes what you did before is allowed so long as you make fair trade and dont make a unfair profit your golden.


    and even thou. deut. is more valuable than crystal it is allowed to trade crystal for deut at 1 to 1 ratios since that player can then trade the crystal for metal at a slightly higher rate and off set the break even aspect of a 1 to 1 trade . as long as the trades fall under the rules all will be fine.


    I'm not pretty I'm not graceful I am the inevitable fact of truth.there is no unwinnable situation.
    ogame.support.gameforge.com/en

  • No more questions then, just an observation according to my point of view!


    I think that the trade rates that are now allowed make the whole system too complicated when you want to make different trades with different resourses.
    I mean, the whole thing would be much simpler if we allowed a bit more diversity.
    By only allowing the crystal:deuterium to be from 1 to 2 and at the same time the metal:crystal only from 1.5 to 2 and not changing one of those two to match the other, things can get complicated during different trades with different resourses. Because in different exchanges the resourses get different values and we need to make sure that these values are overall withing the allowed rates.


    The previous example is a great one for this case:
    A sells 3M metal for 1M deuterium to B (allowed rate)
    A sells 1M deuterium for 1M crystal to B (allowed rate)


    These 2 rates give a greater value to crystal because B buys 3M metal and gives back 1M crystal.
    So, from 2 allowed rates occures one that is not.


    In my opinion this should not be happening.


    It's also hard to define whether a profit from those trades is fair or not because people can still make profit by using the merchant and/or a 3rd player to make trades and increase the value of a resourse to an "illegal" rate. There are many legal ways to do that.


    Anyway, thanks for your time and your responses!
    I suggest that the trading rules should be written more clearly because people could misunderstand them when it comes to metal - crystal exchanges.

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  • But buying cheap deut to sell it to the merchant to make profit is legal, one must wonder why...

    And by combining 1 trade with a player and 1 with merchant someone can sell his deuterium at 4-2-1.


    Legal as well :whistling:

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