this new pushing rule

  • It is forbidden to manipulate legal trade rates by giving unfair advantage to a higher ranked player (example and not limited to this: buying expensive and selling cheaper the same resource to the same player, selling scraped fleet at low trade rates





    that was written in the news, not bad bud why not flat/fix rate


    like 2.5./1.5/1 or any other ratio?


    would eliminate pushing forever and unfair advantage :dead:

  • Some communities have the lower rate set at 2.5/1.5/1


    It doesn't stop the merch abuse, but certainly makes it less profitable


    Fixing a rate is also a good idea, but must be also applied to the merchant, otherwise the abuse will still be possible..


    Either way, one issue has been sorted apparently, so gj on that

  • I'd be in favor of changing the deuterium setting in UNI 1 to 50%.
    -Happy Fleeters
    and
    I'd be in favor of fixing the trade rate in UNI 1 to 3-2-1
    -Happy Miners


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  • Standard GF, a rule that should have been brought in 3+ years ago brought in, yet brought in with 0 clarification and therefore no way to enforce.


    What is a low trade rate!? Surely any legal trade rate isn't low? Or it wouldn't be legal right? I think a set trade limit would be a possibility.


    In reality, we need a rule overhaul so that they can actually be enforced and not just have certain go's interpreting them as they see fit. Realistically, hardly any of them are enforceable because they are so vague and poorly written.

  • After the ten years i have been in the team i'm well aware that there is no rule that can cover all possible ways to cheat.
    All I can promise is to make sure no pushing by fleet scrapping will remain unpunished.


    We had in mind to use the 2.5/1.5/1 trade rate as a limit but this is noneffective as to prevent pushing, so we selected " low trade rates" only not to allow cheaters to escape and give you opportunity to use common sense.

  • From my perspective, it´s as clear as it gets.
    You are forbidden to make profit from scrapped fleets. If you obtain profit through any tade ratio manipulation (i.e. selling your deut at 3 2 1, buying at 2 1 1. or selling at 2.1/ 1.1/ 1 and buying at 2 1 1), it´s all the same, you´ll get banned if the math proves the gaining of profit.

  • well its about time...I play this game for 12 years now, with few shorts pauses so that is why I have new acc on forum.


    I argued with SGO for almost 2 hours around year ago because of illigal trade rates and scraping fleet. 10 years ago this would be perma ban and you didn't even need a rule. well or fleeters would take care ourselfs with harvesting cheater fleet (no fast rebuilds, no 30% fleet repair...) so when you were crashed you were crashed for good. good old times with perma bans.



    today a player can jump from 1M points to 15M points in 24 hours, 5 other accounts goes from 2M points to 0,5M points and GO didn't do nothing because there were no rule for scrapping fleet and selling/buying at unfair ratio.



    What is a low trade rate!? Surely any legal trade rate isn't low? Or it wouldn't be legal right? I think a set trade limit would be a possibility.


    its not about legal trade rates, main problem was:


    player 1 buyed 10M deut for 30M metal from player 2,
    player 2 buyed 10M deut for 20M metal from player 1


    so before trade:
    player 1: 30M metal and 0 deut
    player 2: 20M metal and 10M deut


    so after this first trade player 1 have: 10M deut 0M metal
    player 2: 50M metal and 0M deut


    after second trade:
    player 1 have: 20M metal and 0M deut
    player 2 have: 30M metal and 10M deut.


    repeat this 10 times and you have 100M free metal. now this is finally over.

  • hmmm





    than just ban the scrap option and leave the free 3 2 1 to 2 1 1 rates?


    market will tell



    or simply stats will tell whos the merch needy guy:P



    and then we make fun of him

  • this abuse is covered by this :



    pushing rule explanation wrote:

    It is forbidden to manipulate legal trade rates by giving unfair advantage to a higher ranked player (example and not limited to this: buying expensive and selling cheaper the same resource to the same player, selling scraped fleet at low trade rates).

  • What about scrapped defense?


    EDIT: As to clarify why I'm even asking this; about half a year ago the biggest turtle .org-wide was scrapped in quantum and pushed into another account. Back then it was done by raiding off the resources, which made it possible to ban the players. With trades however that wouldn't have been possible. Is this covered by the new rule?


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  • With all due respect valent I disagree that the rule covers it. By leaving it vague it is completely left to the perception of the players and staff.


    If the manipulation of trade rates was an enforceable rule you could ban ANYONE who has ever traded at less than 3:2:1 and used merchant at any point to gain 3:2:1. That is manipulation of trade rates. Merchant is a tool for the manipulation of trade rates and has been used as such ever since it was implemented.


    Don't get me wrong, I like that the team are trying to shore up shady areas, but you need concrete statements to make things stick. It wouldn't if this was still a fully free game, but it's not anymore. If you ban someone by loose application of weakly written rules someone will get their backside handed to them at some point

  • that was written in the news, not bad bud why not flat/fix rate
    like 2.5./1.5/1 or any other ratio?


    would eliminate pushing forever and unfair advantage :dead:

    ^ this.
    Would strongly support a fixed minimum rate along those lines for any trade, to be respected by the stronger player.


    Still, new rules are a long-expected change in the right direction -> Kudos.

    Proud member of the Pint-trilling Naked Reindeer of the Apocalypse [Naked]


    Polaris

  • -Legal trade rates have to stay 3/2/1 and 2/1/1 as they are part of the international rules for OGame. We can't forbid scraping , this is a game feature.


    -Good point about defense ( i'll add it )


    - I can't ban just anyone, only those that are cheating or going borderline or around with the rules in order to gain unfair advantage. This is where I need your support to report anything that you find suspicious. Please , forgive us for not being able to give always a fast and clear answer, there are many things that we can't share with you . In any case your desire to have a clean game is the same as our mission but we have to do what we can with what we have.

  • Sorry I can't quote directly:


    - I can't ban just anyone, only those that are cheating or going borderline or around with the rules in order to gain unfair advantage.


    ---> this is where the problems are. Banning for Borderline and around the rules is all well and good when the game is free. But when people are paying money it can't come down to a moral judgement, that just legally wouldn't hold up. It has to be fully fleshed out, black and white, if you do between xxx and xxx this is illegal and bannable. Not "exploiting low trade rates".


    For example, if I gained res from scrapping tomorrow and was banned. I could take you to court and win on the fact that "low trade rates" were not explicitly defined and as I did not draft the rules the court would rule in my favour. I have invested reasonable money in my account so would have to be compensated. I realise this is an extreme case but something GF clearly need to consider.


    A possible way to word rules against scrap pushing would be:


    "In the case of scrapping fleet or defense, 90% (for arguments sake) of scrapped resources must be reinvested into the account which scrapped the ships/defense. The remaining 10% may only be traded at 3:2:1."


    Alternatively: "all resources gained from scrapping ships or defense may only be traded at 3:2:1"


    The holes in this are how you prove what is scrapped res... but I think as long as a specific amount is of limited merchant value you can put a lid on the problem.

  • What if the ban is reversed? Do you think it matters after 6-12 months of ban ?


    I can't impose to trade only with 3/2/1 - There is a strategy game in trading too, and is not cheating . I don't plan to punish all players because some can take advantage of the rules.


    I did scrapped some of my fleet, mostly the one coming from expeditions but i use the resources for my own development . All the other players are doing the same.


    If after scraping fleet/ defense you still need a resource and you have another in larger supply, you can trade but to your advantage. We can make difference between honest trades and scams without imposing a fixed trade rate.


    Growing an Ogame account implies the use of complex strategies , making rigid rules is limiting the game potential. How many of you wondered why some players are growing faster than others ? I can tell you, not all are cheating and not all are DM abusers .

  • By asking if the ban was reversed after 6-12 months you are essentially saying that the rules can be enforced at personal preference until legally proved to be unenforceable... i can't believe anyone wants that. Get on the wrong side of someone and they can interpret the vague rules how they see fit? No thanks.


    I was talking about 3:2:1 for scrapped res, not all res. But if that is not feasible then forcing scrapped res to be invested on the scrap account is surely a way around it?


    I am not naieve, some players grow fast because they play well. But how many of the top accounts have already had fleets scrapped into them? How many have an army of traders who give them metal or deut to merchant?


    To summarise what my main point in this conversation is:


    The rules are too vague to be properly enforced and need rewriting with clear boundaries of what is acceptable.


    Without this, how can a GO do his or her job effectively? It will always be based on perception.


    My perception, if you truly mean manipulation of trade rates is illegal, half the community should be banned for buying 2:1:1 and marching up to 3:2:1.

    • I have scrapped a significant portion of my fleet and reinvested in my mines and also scrap my expo ships, so I am not against the scrap function per se.