probes in ACS

    I think the link below covers most the bases(then i posted my version under it)....I'm not sure why this thread was closed, as I don't feel like they answered or full addressed the question.....just quoted some arbitrary ish and then acted like they are right. Anyways, I think Ice is right.....arbitrary rules should be looked at, not pushed under the rug because that's how it's always been...which isn't the case.


    good thread that should still be open

    Pushing? mmmmm


    my version of the above

    [TOT: 2.738.744.000] blondie [The REVS] & OMA [The REVS] vs. Roxas [Phoenix] (A: 73.770.000, D: 2.664.974.000)



    If anyone could give a real answer to the questions asked, please feel free to drop them here. They stopped counting probes as ACS when they were added by people that have no real part in the battle and no chance of adding real fleet because they were doing so way back in the day to make solo hits into ACS 10's because of added probe, nothing to do with being involved in the hit or having the ability to add real fleet to the fight like the above 2 battles.

    Zagy: "Enjoy building your ego with likes of your ally mate.
    Like we having 14 year old girls here. I expect now everyday status with some quote and selfie from toilet."
    Heretic: "If you want to make it personal...I might ask why you are asking for selfies from ppl you suspect are 14 year old girls and ones from the toilet no less. Creeper much?"

    To be honest, your friend really didn't have any firm arguments, started the thread nice looking for info and ended it with a childish comment that didn't really bring to the discussion.


    It's true that his probes didn't have basically any impact on the CR except tanking a few shots which doesn't really contribute to the fight.

    If this was allowed, this exact method would regularly be used by everyone to get pushed since spending 500k crystal is really funny in lategame and everyone would exploit the method.



    On the other hand, one GO stated that MDs don't count towards loot distribution and I find that extremely dumb.

    What if we're MDing someone as an alliance, 10 people MD but only 5 people can get into the ACS...?


    That is plain stupid, RIPs aren't spy probes and shouldn't be treated as such.


    Players should report all participants of said ACS and their lost rips should be taken into consideration plus they should be awarded part of the profit, simple as that.


    Every remotely serious alliance will distribute losses and profits with rips being taken into consideration, I don't understand why OGame team likes making such illogical rules, same as moonshot bashing rule, like wtf...

    well , the argument is more about adding a probe when you could add real fleet that has no real benefit to add to the hit....other than die, require more recs, and cushion the damage. Ice and myself had fleet down we could add to the fight...or in his case slow and add or some such. Fact is I could have sent 1kk lf with attack, random overnight production fleet, etc. not slowing the attack, but adding nothing to skill of hit, just unneeded damage and more fuel spent for no good reason. I had the option to add more pointless fleet to the hit beyond my probe but that seemed stupid/pointless. Like Ice I would have just added more probes as my MOD said because it didn't die, it didn't effect the fight. Or sent my lf. This is an arbitrary rule as stated by the MODs and in our cases it is applied wrongly. This was meant for those who add probe last minute to either: make it a ACS top10 without said player taking any part in hit other than probe or said player not having any ability to add fleet beyond probe to hit due to time constraints etc., or to add probe to show other side that they were on etc to show support and as a taunt.....that was why they came up with unwritten rule...i remember, cause I was playing then. Anyways, probably beating a dead horse, but principle dictates that I say my piece when I think something is wrong

    Zagy: "Enjoy building your ego with likes of your ally mate.
    Like we having 14 year old girls here. I expect now everyday status with some quote and selfie from toilet."
    Heretic: "If you want to make it personal...I might ask why you are asking for selfies from ppl you suspect are 14 year old girls and ones from the toilet no less. Creeper much?"

    OK, I see what you're trying to say.


    Perhaps there should be something like a threshold, for example in order for the attacker to be eligible for loot, their fleet should be worth at least 20% value of the total fleet (total fleet being acs fleet without attacker's fleet), in any other case, attacker is eligible for a cut that equals their losses.

    Take it from someone who has had to write rulebooks for things before, it's really hard to actually write rules in such a way nobody would take advantage or complain. For example if we say "they must have combat ships involved" then people will throw 1 LF into a 4kkk losses battle to get themselves pushed by their friends. If you say "you must have at least X% of the ships" for any significant value of X then people with 0.1% less than that value (maybe because someone else joined the ACS after they added their fleet without them having a say) will complain about the unfairness of not being able to share the booty.


    That's not a comment on anything that was described in the other thread, it's purely theoretical, and I agree the MD thing stinks.

    side note: My only complaint was they took my ACS top10 away....granted my homie got a solo 10 so still a win. Just rational behind their actions I feel are suspect and arbitrary......and the principle of the matter...the profit and split stuff is more important in the other thread....we just both feel we got robbed because we only added probes versus crap fleet

    Zagy: "Enjoy building your ego with likes of your ally mate.
    Like we having 14 year old girls here. I expect now everyday status with some quote and selfie from toilet."
    Heretic: "If you want to make it personal...I might ask why you are asking for selfies from ppl you suspect are 14 year old girls and ones from the toilet no less. Creeper much?"

    I know it could be not written ... actually the rules are too wide and whatever we try to clarify players are complaining more and more ... for the ACS attack it should be realistic for attackers ... we are aware .. adding a probe can be a way of pushing like someone lower rank keep attacking targets and farming targets and invites you for a probe join . then you split the profit 50% thats not fair.

    Warning wrote:

    I know it could be not written ... actually the rules are too wide and whatever we try to clarify players are complaining more and more ... for the ACS attack it should be realistic for attackers ... we are aware .. adding a probe can be a way of pushing like someone lower rank keep attacking targets and farming targets and invites you for a probe join . then you split the profit 50% thats not fair.

    Completely agree, that's why I would have them look at the totality of the facts, especially since they are both top10s. I have screen shots and it's easy for the GO to check my account at the time....or I was led to believe as much. If you can see I have the fleet etc and that my story matches the facts, then I should get credit where credit is due. I made judgement call based on best profit, least losses. I could have added junk to the hint all lame, showing less skill.


    Since this is an arbitrary, non-written rule, I'd like to think that these hits and hits like them would be measured on a case by case basis. Had I not been on the up or breaking some rule, I wouldn't be raising the issue. I'm raising it on principle and simple confusion t be real. In my case, Blondie is number 1 in my uni so can send me all the res in the world, no rule against pulling. Both hits are different, but have same general argument. I get turtle smashes for damage, not skill. Beyond that, point of Hall of Fame and the Top 10 section is big damage.....and skill. Damage is the defining factor, but not the only factor. To say that in order for me to get my credit/due, I have to add more ships for less profit etc. when a probe will do, that is asking me to play in a less skilled and backwards way.


    anyways.....


    Thank you every one for the input so far. I do appreciate the time and effort you put into giving me your two cents. I'm just trying to make sense out of something that doesn't make sense to me. The rest is on principle. Thank you for clarity, though I'm still a bit lost;)

    Zagy: "Enjoy building your ego with likes of your ally mate.
    Like we having 14 year old girls here. I expect now everyday status with some quote and selfie from toilet."
    Heretic: "If you want to make it personal...I might ask why you are asking for selfies from ppl you suspect are 14 year old girls and ones from the toilet no less. Creeper much?"
    Warning wrote:

    I know it could be not written ... actually the rules are too wide and whatever we try to clarify players are complaining more and more ... for the ACS attack it should be realistic for attackers ... we are aware .. adding a probe can be a way of pushing like someone lower rank keep attacking targets and farming targets and invites you for a probe join . then you split the profit 50% thats not fair.

    I agree with you 100% ,but if 1 probe isnt enough to change a battle the question i keep asking is "Why do we only get a 50% take and bandit points on an honourable attack when we should be getting 75% take before having someone add 1 esp probe ?"

    I completely understand about the pushing rule and how much this would be abused and ive been around long enough to know how the rules work ,its just that its never been explained why the take and bandit points would be given because of 1 probe that everyone says is unimportant and shouldnt be counted .

    it is just because you can't take that into considerarion while coding the game .. it is in general it says acs hit can turn unhonorable battles ... i wish that in coding we can plug in human logic .. then we can make the rules to be followed automatically .. automatic ban for all rules violation

    Warning wrote:

    it is just because you can't take that into considerarion while coding the game .. it is in general it says acs hit can turn unhonorable battles ... i wish that in coding we can plug in human logic .. then we can make the rules to be followed automatically .. automatic ban for all rules violation

    Do that and put the pillory back up, that would be super nice. We would then blame the coding/determiner/AI/skynet/whatever, while still b!tch'n at you guys about it for getting banned. With coded determiner hopefully being unbiased and with having pillory back, we could see ban reason again, together they can help confirm scriptors and link accounts that wouldn't be linkable otherwise etc etc

    Zagy: "Enjoy building your ego with likes of your ally mate.
    Like we having 14 year old girls here. I expect now everyday status with some quote and selfie from toilet."
    Heretic: "If you want to make it personal...I might ask why you are asking for selfies from ppl you suspect are 14 year old girls and ones from the toilet no less. Creeper much?"

    that can't be perfect and easy as you are saying sir, if that ever happened it would be easy to trick and cheat :) , and you are addressing your word directly to me , I am not a GF coder we are just volunteers .. The pillory was removed to protect players privacy .

    Warning wrote:

    The pillory was removed to protect players privacy .

    The honour system is another form of labelling someone "good" or "bad" and im sure some players cry themselves to sleep worrying about it.

    yes, but pillory is out of character kind of thing, it enables witch hunt etc, while honor system is in game kind of thing


    I have -50k honor on one of my accounts it doesn't mean I'm a cheater or rule breaker

    The pillory system being removed:


    If there is a problem with the purchase of dark matter, a player can receive a payment ban.


    A player's problems with their bank, regardless if it is the user's fault, the bank's fault, or Gameforge's fault is not really the business of anyone here and shouldn't be posted for all of the whole community to see.


    There is no reason to publicly shame someone because of a banking error that may not even be their fault.

    ESeB8X4.png


    SGO: Quantum, Himalia, Galatea, Kalyke, Norma, Pasiphae

    crispybits wrote:

    Then don't post payment bans to pillory - only in game rule breaking...

    Logic fail.


    Example:


    Ok, so say you get banned for payment issue. In game your account is banned. Then say kewlness wants to know if you were pushing or multi accounting, or whatever...he goes to pillory.....


    hmmm..... crispybits is banned but he isn't on the pillory...so what is the only ban not listed on the pillory?

    ESeB8X4.png


    SGO: Quantum, Himalia, Galatea, Kalyke, Norma, Pasiphae

    That might be a viable solution actually, depending on if there are other privacy issues at stake that GF is worried about.


    But yes, I'm sorry I de-railed the topic a bit, my apologies

    ESeB8X4.png


    SGO: Quantum, Himalia, Galatea, Kalyke, Norma, Pasiphae

    i thought the practice of adding a probe was mostly to give a smaller player a chance to get his name on a big hit. Or simply a way of saying - i was involved, but couldn't actually fly on this.


    I have been offered the opportunity on occasion, but i always turn it down.


    receiving a share of the profits - no. alliance members and friends often play a part in the background. what about the guy who was watching for 6 weeks, or the guy who came up with the idea but wasn't close enough to fly, or happened to be V moded when the big chance came?


    helping your mates is part of the game. sometimes you just have to be happy that they got the hit.


    MOST HATED RANK #1

    TOP 1 (solo) x 2 (ACS) x 1
    TOP 10 (solo) x 3 (ACS) x 9
    Super Adv x 64
    Adv x 290
    Basic x 1711
    RIP KILLS 6518



    The post was edited 1 time, last by baal ().