New Beginnings: A thread

  • From the leaks my planets can easily sustain 20k of them while still remaining barely worth it to send 1500-2000 rips on. :)

  • No1 is talking about discoverer class. To much inferior to collector and general?

    Make expeditions better... Instead of like 2 mil resources, make it infinite in accordance to what your cargoes can carry. And the same goes for DM, instead of normally giving you 200-300 DM, make it 4k or 5k, with events being 9x that.

    Otherwise, yep, no point. Expeditions are a waste of time.

    It's not that bad. Also some1 said more planet fields (100%) and faster research. How much faster? If we have at least -50% thats huge.

    Ofc still inferior to other 2 classes...


    Leader of MINERS (uni. Zibal)

  • It's not that bad. Also some1 said more planet fields (100%) and faster research. How much faster? If we have at least -50% thats huge.

    Ofc still inferior to other 2 classes...

    Yes that would be great. But the collector seems like the best choice by far.

    Moons donated: 10

  • for a fleeter that general seems the choice

    And for others it depends, do you wanna spend dm on changeing, do you wanna be active and send expeditions or passive and just collect mines production

    And moust important of all are the numbers they gonna have, all we got now are the leaks and asumptions, and mechanics behind it, is there a cap, hard cap, soft cap, will the planets be 100%bigger or 1000%, how much more production, research speed and increased findings in exp

    All assumptions and leakked info that should be tweaked a bit and is incomplete


    Noone can say which one will be broken, which one is way to go or anything

    I am makeing Silverwind's days

    And I am savage now!

  • Let's say everything we know so far is true...I think everything is ok in x1 eco unis but x6 or x7 eco unis this will be f*****g broken and fun at the same time :D

    Also there should be a cooldown on class changing.


    Leader of MINERS (uni. Zibal)

  • Don't freak. Crawlers require energy to run and will realistically cause practical limits of 1-2k per planet. 3k for giant miners.

    Incorrect.

    Relo to slot one, smash solar sats or Energy tech and fusion on 100%


    Profit.


    Build enough defence to sustain your crawlers.


    Profit.


    Shout at squirrels in the park whilst makeing 200b a day tossing it off.


    Feel like Hugh Heffner. Profit.

    Arcane
    :spamshield:




  • The main thing I dislike about crawlers is they will advantage top players over smaller ones, and will advantage DM users over non users. This will only dig the gap further which is the opposite of what this game needs.


    Lower ranks will be much more susceptible to RIP farming even if they build way less crawlers than any top players/top alliances, simply because they can be hit with low risks of retaliation, and will yield steady, safe profits for raiders

    "Ice is a cool guy"

  • Ice well there is that new ship, the reaper which supposedly has rapid fire against RIPs. So I'm not sure your statement about RIP farming will be accurate. In theory, in high speed fleet unis, you could be correct but I suspect the majority of the people who play those unis are on more frequently than not at which point it becomes a simple matter to build a handful of said reapers, if you've chosen that class. As a quote unquote top player, who also occasionally farms people, who also has a very good economy...I'm not going to waste any effort to hit you for 4kk. That's an hour's production. I'm way more likely to hit the guy who's on once a day and leaves 10-15kk sitting on his planet until he fs's. Even then...if I can't easily get the profits, I'm not going to. Even in system in a x1 or x2 fleet speed uni that trip still takes a couple hours with RIPs. Smart players, anyway, would be foolish to RIP farm outside their own system.


    It all comes back to this. Don't make yourself profitable. Yes crawlers might go into DF...even in a 70% into DF that's what 1400 metal and crystal and 700 deut per unit...say multiplied by 10,000 even....14,000,000 metal and crystal into debris field...significant yes but a drop in the bucket to the average top 200 miner in most older unis.


    Also to your point about crawlers advantaging top players over smaller ones...of course they do...just like every level 42 metal mine I build is far superior to every level 20 mine some new player builds. Just like every level of research builds on the last. Does the halve and complete buttons impact top players over new ones? Yep, it sure does. I click complete and spend 108.000 DM on finishing astro 27 I'm getting way more bang for my buck than the sucker who spends the same amount to complete astro 23.

  • the leaked numbers were OP

    but thank god NMA said they changed it

    which can only mean they lowered the % of everything


    now i do enjoy writting whats and ifs but no point now

    so im just gonna wait and see whats OP and whats not


    tho i gotta say that the Discoverer did seem a bit irrelevant in the grand scheme of things

    hopefully they changed that too to make it a bit more appealing

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    Vreme će proći pa moći će svi da vide

    Kako stojimo ponosni, večni ko piramide

  • Also to your point about crawlers advantaging top players over smaller ones...of course they do...just like every level 42 metal mine I build is far superior to every level 20 mine some new player builds. Just like every level of research builds on the last. Does the halve and complete buttons impact top players over new ones? Yep, it sure does. I click complete and spend 108.000 DM on finishing astro 27 I'm getting way more bang for my buck than the sucker who spends the same amount to complete astro 23.

    Per unit cost, a level 42 metal mine is much, much worse than a level 20 metal mine. A crawler attached to a level 42 metal mine is much better than one attached to a level 20 metal mine.

  • Don't forget. You can choose the collector and get your crawlers up then pay some DM and switch to general while still having the crawler advantage

    And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Ghostwolf, and Hell followed with him.


    Veni Vidi Vici

    Audaces Fortuna Iavat


  • Right Astral but my point is..anything tied to a % increase, whether research, ship or building..whether its cargo capacity, eco production increase, ability to fight, or simply the ability to gain a planet, is inherently more useful to top players. There aren't many economy based games where this isn't true. Even if the boost was 100% for someone with a level 20 metal mine and 1% for me with a lvl 40 metal mine...crawlers still benefit me. You'd then produce 8072 base metal per hour...I'd still be producing 53k an hour without one. That's without going into details about how I could build 100 in the time it took you to build 10 or anything like that.

  • Right Astral but my point is..anything tied to a % increase, whether research, ship or building..whether its cargo capacity, eco production increase, ability to fight, or simply the ability to gain a planet, is inherently more useful to top players. There aren't many economy based games where this isn't true. Even if the boost was 100% for someone with a level 20 metal mine and 1% for me with a lvl 40 metal mine...crawlers still benefit me. You'd then produce 8072 base metal per hour...I'd still be producing 53k an hour without one. That's without going into details about how I could build 100 in the time it took you to build 10 or anything like that.

    Let's ignore the fact that smaller players are more susceptible to rip bashing, and just consider what happens when a smaller player and a larger player mine in peace.


    Everything else that increases the resources you get in ogame is either a fixed % increase that you can only get once (such as geologist) or has increasing cost per % increase (plasma tech, mines, etc). This means that over time, my mines will get closer to yours. While the gap in points between us will still increase over time, your income grows slower than my income, causing the relative size of my account to yours to increase. So we might start at 1m points for me, 10m for you, and a year later have 100m points for me, 150m for you, then a year after that 260m, 320m and so forth.


    The Crawler doesn't have the same diminishing marginal returns. A miner with 100k crawlers will have half the income of a 200k crawler miner with the same mines. Then a year later they'll have say, 200k and 400k, then 400k and 800k. Adding in the fact that crawlers actually give a *larger* boost to bigger players than smaller ones, this means that if I start out with a smaller account, and we both make mines + crawlers, the relative size of my account to yours will actually shrink over time.


    Yes, it's true that the gap between payers will increase over time even in the current regime. But the relative size of accounts pursuing similar strategies currently equalizes over time, meaning that with more activity and skill, you can have some hope to catch up.


    That being said, this is a really obvious point, and I imagine Gameforge knows about this and has fixed the crawler accordingly... right?

  • So, the main issue people have here is about the leak that showed that each Crawler gives 0.03% of the total production per planet right?

    The disadvantages I see here are that you have to build Crawlers in every planet and, depending on how much they cost(which btw can someone tell me how much did they cost in the leak?), build a decent sized turtle on every planet as well, and ofc the fact that Crawlers, like solar sats, can't be moved.

    I dunno, I really have to know how much they cost to make a fair judgement. If they cost about the same as large cargos then it's easy to get like 10k Crawlers backed up by a solid defence and get 300% of your production. And yes... That's fucking OP as hell. Make each Crawler give 0.007% or if you leave the 0.03% percentage, then make it expensive.
    Or make them require a decent amount of energy... Or all of these combined...

    AND HOW ABOUT THE REAPER HAVING RF AGAINST THE DEATHSTAR? Why is no one talking about this? Or other than having RF against RIPs, it's pretty shitty?

    Moons donated: 10

  • Grimm


    The crawlers are linear, so assuming your planets are all equal levels, you get the same effect if you build 10,000 on one or 1000 on 10.


    I don’t think anyone is bothered about reapers because you can just build fleets to counter that effect. They both have rapidfire and take rapidfire from DS (let’s not get started on this being classed as a dead-end idea for so many years).


    The point was that the leak crawlers will truly break the game. The reaper is probably just going to f**k things up mildly, but no one will care if their crawlers produce 200 billion per day for no effort

    Space Pyrate

  • According to spoilers crawler cost is: 2k metal and crystal, 1k deut, 50 energy.

    RF against deathstar is insane. Maybe they said RF against destroyer not RIPs.


    Museko Style i think it's 100% more not 1000% (which is also OP).

    WHAT????

    Only 5k measly resources? Ah, but the the energy levels do prevent you from building a ton of Crawlers... 50 a piece means that 10k Crawlers would need 500k Energy and you won't have that, or even damn near close to it. I have Fusion Reactor at 20 and Energy tech at 20 as well and only manage 52k energy (plus 6k from the staff). And fusion reactor past level 20 is damn expensive and so is energy tech.

    But still, the cost should be a bit higher. 5k metal and crystal and 1k deut would be more reasonable.

    And yes, having RF against RIPs is dumb, there's NO UNIT in the game that has RF against anything superior. As I posted before, I really can't tell where the Reaper will be. What ground is there to cover? You have fodder(LF), you have slightly stronger fodder(HF), you have a mid-tier ship(Cruiser), you have high-tier ships with different purposes each (BS, BC, Bomber) and you have a top-tier ship(Destroyer) and then you have the god-tier ship(Deathstar). So yeah, either this new unit is a Destroyer with different purposes or it doesn't serve anything. A counter to Destroyers I guess?

    Moons donated: 10

  • Ah, but the the energy levels do prevent you from building a ton of Crawlers... 50 a piece means that 10k Crawlers would need 500k Energy and you won't have that, or even damn near close to it.

    Relocate to pos 1, build solar satelites and you 'll have it :D Ofc you're in danger then 'cause big fleeters will destroy you in a sec BUT the problem here is what if top fleeters in older unis start to use a lot of satelites and crawlers. Imagine top 1 in Quantum uni relocating to pos 1, building millions and millions of satelites and then few 100 000 crawlers? Game breaking haha. And no1 can touch him.


    Leader of MINERS (uni. Zibal)