Device bans for perma bans.

  • As the title says when a player has broken the rules so many times

    and has been ban and returned for the same thing over and over.

    As well as when a player has done something So bad in game or on the forum. their device is I.D.ed then the device it's self is ban so the person can never log back into create a multi-count again. unless they replace their device they use to access the board or to play the game from or on.


    I'm not pretty I'm not graceful I am the inevitable fact of truth.there is no unwinnable situation.
    ogame.support.gameforge.com/en

  • Sazr scaled punishments for multiple infractions of the same kind are already in place. Stronger violations may only have perma ban as a first step.


    Blackmass the problem becomes tagging a certain device with a player ID and how that relates to German computer privacy laws. I understand where you're coming from as far as stopping repeat violators, but my concern is that there is a potential to avoid the privacy of our users. I'm not sure I want a person who is behaving and doing the right thing to have to submit to telling Gameforge what kind of devices and how many they have.


    Personally I think we could cut about 50% of the cheating on this community with one bold rule change, but no one will want to hear about that change much less do it.

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  • Sazr scaled punishments for multiple infractions of the same kind are already in place. Stronger violations may only have perma ban as a first step.


    Blackmass the problem becomes tagging a certain device with a player ID and how that relates to German computer privacy laws. I understand where you're coming from as far as stopping repeat violators, but my concern is that there is a potential to avoid the privacy of our users. I'm not sure I want a person who is behaving and doing the right thing to have to submit to telling Gameforge what kind of devices and how many they have.


    Personally I think we could cut about 50% of the cheating on this community with one bold rule change, but no one will want to hear about that change much less do it.

    Sony bans the OS system of the psp pods units. , E.A. Sports bans devices. Fortenight bans devices , many games do that wow does as well. the thing is to I.D. a device all a gaming company has to do is ping it. then you have it's tag and I.D. and can device ban it. based off it's Connection I.D. and the provided device I.D. from the ping the persons privacy is still protected. since a shallow ping only shows the Provider and device I.D. # that the intended banned player is using . From the provider. And since for marketing device I.D.s are used to place location add's for items that sell higher in that area already is happening to prove it pick up you're phone, with out calling any one and talk about cat food dog food human food, and wait five minutes and go to face book or do a google search, and watch the adds you get.


    Along with when a player agree's to the terms and conditions they also agree to Game forge checking their device for malware and proxies just like the IRC chat . so the players device can be ban.



    I'm not pretty I'm not graceful I am the inevitable fact of truth.there is no unwinnable situation.
    ogame.support.gameforge.com/en

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Blackmass ().

  • Blackmass


    Sony = Japanese. E.A. Sports = Canadian. Fortenight = American. W.O.W = American....none of these are based in Germany.


    And yes, it's already happening on your PC and phone in many countries but the German law is the one Gameforge has to obey. While I'm not an expert on this law, what I have read indicates this is the sticky area.


    I believe this law is a trend we will be seeing as people are beginning to to become wary of the invasion of privacy. I wouldn't be surprised to see more countries moving toward similar or stronger measures.



    Well, don't leave us hanging...what is your bold idea?


    Make it completely illegal to share an IP for any reason, or make it completely legal to multi account.



    giphy.gif

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    SGO - Quantum & Vega & Kalyke & Galatea
    Specific In game issue? Please use the ticket system

  • make it completely legal to multi account.



    giphy.gif


    I don't think there's much of a problem with this personally - with the condition that you can stop the bots. Otherwise the universes will just fill with bot run accounts and one player can run hundreds of accounts. If we're all managing multis manually then there's still gonna be a human limit to how much you can do with limited time and it'll leave a lot of accounts vulnerable to hits etc cos a player has forgotten the FS on that one came back. They should lso all have the same username with a number after (so mine would be crispybits(1), crispybits(2), etc) so people can tell who they're dealing with...

    Anyway, this is likely to go slightly off topic now :-P

  • Silverwind , this is a little tongue-in-cheek but with all the multies out there now, one would think it's already legal.

    I submit that's the problem...let's make it official and let the Orange team focus on other important issues. Otherwise, I prefer that we make it completely illegal and the majority of those "other issues" will drop in great numbers.


    As crispybits just pointed out there is a strong correlation between multi-accounts and bots. Add to that that most multi accounts exist for one of two purposes: they are either selling res at lowest trade ratio legal to push the main account or they are building fleet so the other account can crash it and recycle it.


    ....so there we have it: the three biggest problems with cheating are tied into sharing an IP.


    Just sayin'

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    SGO - Quantum & Vega & Kalyke & Galatea
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  • giphy.gif


    It isn't even against the law to ban a device, it is simply not possible to ban a device in a BROWSER game. All the examples you listed are programms directly on the computer or special devices.



    Just use this website as an example, it tells you how unique your browser is. Mine is set up pretty specifically which yields an already pretty unique number:

    (You most likely need to click "Show fingerprinting results")

    Quote

    Within our dataset of several hundred thousand visitors tested in the past 45 days, only one in 7857.22 browsers have the same fingerprint as yours.

    https://panopticlick.eff.org/


    So again, like in the past with these suggestions, this simply isn't technically possible.

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  • fair enough how ever even under German Laws per the enter webs a device can be ban. from a browser game.

    so of the games not mentioned in that video are pure browser based such as on line competition majong. a device can be ban

    Now the only thing GF has to do is simply add the fact a device can be ban under updated Terms and conditions policies.

    and since the game goes through two lobby pages basicly the main GF page then the lobby page any players devices has already been I.D. buy the system server to track vulnerable devices on the system. so the servers don't get infected. and if that is not the case a simply player Ident tag in the activation email for a new account can be added and all current players can just re-varify their accounts to be included in the device tags I.Ding a device or taging a validated acc. device. is not a violation of privacy only when that tag or ident is used to try and gain access to the device. of said player or user.

    in this way with a Ident tag upon varification of an account. this also means if a player has another device they log from to emergency fleet save from it would need to be Ident tagged or a ticket opened before hand if it is an out of town device such as a busness office at a hotel. when you are out of town. if no ident is there then the account gets single day v-moded till the owner logs in from the Ident tagged device.

    as well for an ident tag a simple number can be given to each player they have to enter before logging in to open the lobby page. this way if the device needs ban with out physicly banning or blocking the device the ident number can be changed or removed instead locking the player from the lobby and access to the ban account.


    I'm not pretty I'm not graceful I am the inevitable fact of truth.there is no unwinnable situation.
    ogame.support.gameforge.com/en

  • You possibly do not understand the difference between device and browser.


    You can ban the browser fingerprint, however thats still easy to change.

    To ban a "device" ( I suspect you refer to a PC or mobile phone) you would need it's unique ID (e.g. a UUID in Microsoft Operating Systems), then there is no legal way to get that data through a web browser.

    You can use an security check tool(an executeable) ahead with an handshake to the webserver, e.g. like banking platforms do to fulfill PCI requirements. That can do the trick(even it can be tricked too), but I would immediate stop playing an online game with such an requirement.

  • You possibly do not understand the difference between device and browser.


    You can ban the browser fingerprint, however thats still easy to change.

    To ban a "device" ( I suspect you refer to a PC or mobile phone) you would need it's unique ID (e.g. a UUID in Microsoft Operating Systems), then there is no legal way to get that data through a web browser.

    You can use an security check tool(an executeable) ahead with an handshake to the webserver, e.g. like banking platforms do to fulfill PCI requirements. That can do the trick(even it can be tricked too), but I would immediate stop playing an online game with such an requirement.

    And yes that info can be obtained legally buy a browser based gaming company since all players agree to the terms and conditions no hand shake is needed. since part of the t+c is to allow that site to check the device for proxies and other amlware or malicious software. Just like the Gamesnet IRC host does. with only a floating T+C. that is agreed to on every log into their servers. (Discord does the same thing they just don't tell you they do why do you think it takes 10 to 15 seconds for Discord to load. So when a server soft pings an account it gets the I.P. identifications and system info as well as the users device system info. so a device could be ban. from a browser based perspective.

    and I took into consideration the fact of the hand shake between devices as far as plat form and user go. face book can ban your device no handshake so can twitter and yelp. instagram and snap chat. those are all browser based.

    and all are under German law since International net nutrality laws provided that German law is to be used as far as governance. Of many of the Enter webs go in the international arena go. more so since the listed social sites are American based but operate out of country to avoid taxes or at least the higher taxes

    even with a revokable Lobby Ident number that can be revoked they may log in on another device or try and fool the system. but either way if they make it back into the lobby when they log in to the account with out the ident verification the account gets v-moded till they log back in from the Ident tagged device. using the ident number. that was revoked. or it's a no go a proper ident number that is revokable means the ident number can be erased from the system. so even if a user tried to hack crak or break the ident number system to log back in it would destroy the lobby servers for them to do it.

    since the dot 2 program would have to be rewritten to read a system ident number that's not there any more. and if the dot 2 program becomes compromised. that in it's self is a felony cyber crime. and the average is 10 years in jail. 6 door to door for good behavior. or early release. practices. as well as GF can hold that user responsible for all repairs and lost moneys caused buy that user.


    I'm not pretty I'm not graceful I am the inevitable fact of truth.there is no unwinnable situation.
    ogame.support.gameforge.com/en

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Blackmass ().

  • You mix up stuff.

    Of course if you agree to have a software check the identity and security of your machine, that is perfectly legal.

    Now again - if an online browser game would be require to let them onto my OS level, despite I have no control which data they get, how it is secured outwards and what on the end they do with the data, I would simply not play that game.

    If my banking accounts or my employer require to do security checks before I can connect, that is another story, but not the GF which screw up one update after another.


    There are very good reasons browsers are limited in what they directly can do at the OS and run quite a lot sandboxed.

  • It's far more development intensive to write a front end app AND a server setup than it is to write a server setup and a web interface. Then you have to write different ones for windows, iOS, linux, android, macOS, etc etc. There's only really 3 browsers anyone cares about and they largely work the same, writing apps for all those different OSs is not a small thing...


    Edit - it also wouldn't prevent someone just reinstalling the software and having a fresh security ID after a ban - you've still got the problem faddi is highlighting...

  • OK so who missed the fact I have stated an Ident number upon verification of an account. this is not intrusive nor needs the P.C. or mobiles OS info.

    this shows who a user is when accessing the lobby page. <<<< delete this and a player can no longer long in to the lobby and I.E. inturn no longer access the game. no ident verfied log ins to an account get auto

    v-moded. till the Identification number for the lobby page is entered buy the identified device per the validation of the account and assignment of that users lobby identification number. buy the system.

    So in the event an account needs to be more outwardly ban. disallowing Lobby access from any un-identified or unassigned device.


    I'm not pretty I'm not graceful I am the inevitable fact of truth.there is no unwinnable situation.
    ogame.support.gameforge.com/en

  • If I'm not mistaken, Fortnite and all the other games companies have physical software installed on your computer which can access your device IDs and everything it requires to check if the device is banned, as nma already said, OGame can't get a lot from browser and it can be modified anyway so it doesn't matter.


    This is why in my opinion GF should consider creating a chromium based PC app (like discord) which could later be ported to the mobile devices as well (like discord). Tracking botters would be much easier in my opinion and it would have access to all required data to check for device ID of installed hardware so device bans could become a reality.


    I never developed chromium based apps so if I'm talking gibberish feel free to correct me but I think this is possible and not as hard really.

  • Blackmass

    It can't be possible.

    When will you be able to get the ID? With registration? Then after a ban you need just to register again.

    This will resolve nothing.


    You can't get one without registration, cause you will need to link it to something, pc/phone related. And we go back to the point of OS, personal data etc...


    So, the only solution, is to do a program/app. Yes, it require time and different codes, but it is the only solution to link the ID to a solid system to ban, like OS and personal data.


    What i don't understand is why GF is not developing something like this.

  • How does a program/app solve it? Say I get banned. I uninstall the software, reinstall it (possibly from a different install file) to generate a brand new ID, and re-register...