Everything is Awesome (If you're a certain group of people playing on this server)

  • An open letter to the players, GO's and Board Moderators of Octans.


    We have the "best" GO team and the "best" board moderators. :quote: (I'm not attacking you guys, just please at least read all of what I have to say before censoring and banning me)


    I get it. You're volunteers. And the job probably isn't that great with people like me running around. :troll:


    But if you're just going to sit around all day banning the innocent people, are you really moderators? Or are you enablers? :cbanned:


    If we're not allowed to talk about the problem ANYWHERE EVER, then the problem will continue to be just that. A problem. :shrug:


    But wait! Aren't we allowed to report suspicious activities from certain folk without fear of reprisals from moderators?


    Yes fellow OGamer! you are! Through the use of a horribly outdated ticket based customer service system. :stick:


    (Which I may add has failed this universe from day one.) (I myself was banned for bashing AND lost my fleet because the GO (whom I will not mention by name) didn't even bother to read how many times I actually attacked the player in question, and thanks to the ancient ticket system I was unbanned while offline, with my account unvmoded.) This is one of many horror stories involving the outdated ticket system.


    I'm not directly accusing anyone in particular, so this post should be fine, yes? (But I'll get a ban anyways.) :topicclosed:


    I have this marked as a spam thread, so as long as nobody here mentions or accuses anyone by name, I think we should be allowed to discuss, yes? (It'll get censored anyways)


    But then again, maybe not. Because more and more it's seeming like we, the legit players are the priority targets of GO's and Board Moderators. (you could always just prove me wrong and pull the trigger on the people you know are cheating, but I guess you'd rather not for some reason? Care to explain it?) Because at this point we all believe some of you guys are in league with the cheaters. It's happened before. I'd love to give you guys the benefit of the doubt, but with this level of censorship and draconian punishment, you're either the Chinese government, corrupt, or you just do not care.


    If you're the Chinese government, spot on job of oppressing and censoring your playerbase. (but you aren't, are you?)


    If you're corrupt or complicit in the problem, shame on you. (I personally seriously doubt you are, but you might be able to see why people think you are, if you step back and take a look at your track record)


    And if you don't care, maybe you shouldn't be volunteering to moderate this game that all of these players love. (But you do care, dont you?)


    Granted the Mods aren't unjustified in some of their actions, we (the players) do have to obey the rules, and some of us (even apparently myself) have not been doing so to the letter of the law.


    But neither have the obvious cheaters. And yet we're consistently the ones being punished.


    This isn't working. The system is broken. Our GO's and board mods shouldn't be volunteers. They should be getting paid for what they do. Every other game has actual employees moderating it, or an anticheat system.


    A majority of them are good people I am sure. But the average player isn't feeling that love from the teams right now. :love: (you guys can easily fix this by stopping what you're doing)


    Going down every post giving everyone who is upset that they have to try and keep up and otherwise survive just on a day to day basis a warning or a mute isn't the way to go about this Board Mods. :headbanging: (I have these on every post so I guess I'll do one here again even though it's not necessary because why not?)


    I get it's frustrating, but you're just going to get more people whipped up into a frenzy. :mob:(And if this continues, nobody wins, and your job gets harder.)


    Until something is done about the cheaters, things will only get worse. :xeno:(People can only play a game with cheaters in it for so long before they: A. get crashed and end up feeding the cheaters. Or B. Vmode and quit forever, as so many have already done.)


    This server will die eventually. (But as it stands now, it will die soon. Especially if everyone continues on this current path.) :sniper::missilelauncher:


    I've seen cheaters go unchecked in servers. And do you know what happens? The server dies within a year. Every time.


    But we have a right to be angry about the failures of this games "support system." It hasn't just failed the players, it's failed the moderators.


    As of now, I'm done filing tickets related to these issues, because nothing will come of them. And after the end of this post, I'm done discussing it on the forums.


    If you guys want to discuss this with me where we can be free from all the draconian board rules, I invite you all to a discord server I have made specifically for this purpose.


    You can also set your discord to always appear offline so people can't read your online times, if that's something that worries you about discord.


    If any cheaters, suspected cheaters or people discussing how to cheat are discovered to be in this discord, I will purge them immediately.


    For the purposes of security, (and to avoid someone using a multiaccount to join) please message me in game for a discord invite. You can contact me at: Last Pale Light


    This will be my last board post on this subject, and I hope it will do something to quell the rising tides of people as ticked off as I am. I'd appreciate it if I didn't get banned for it, but again, I'm pretty sure I will.

    Cosmos own resident Outlaw Leave your fleet sitting if you want a moonshot <3

  • First off, we aren't going to censor you because you didn't break any rules here.


    Second, there was already a thread opened for the purpose of general discussion not aimed at anyone in particular:


    Why don't we just enjoy?


    Third...Oh where do I start. Well, I for one am completely against cheating of any kind. I haven't cheated ONE time since I started in 2005. I don't like it at all. If I had more time and knowledge to devote to being a game operator, I would, because I'd love to take down some cheaters. But my way of contributing to this community is by being a moderator, and keeping these boards clean. Keeping the boards clean means addressing users when rules are broken. I could almost bet my life, every single morning I wake up, that I will log on at some point that day and find someone, from I'm guessing the same alliance, has hopped on and accused someone of cheating or called out Madoka for doing her job in this section. We've only had this type of issue with rampant cheating accusations once before in a long time, in Zibal. Most people are okay with following the rules and attempting to find proof to send to game operators, and if not, they do this thing where they 1) fleet save and 2) go after the cheaters. Sometimes you have to take matters into your own hands.


    Back to Zibal...You think your cheating is bad? We had a guy get Hyper 15, massive stats, etc in less than a month from opening day. Unheard of. Want to know what happened to him? He got smacked, multiple times. I know the players you all are accusing may seem like they have the odds stacked against you, but I've seen people gather together to take down cheaters before. The hope, obviously, is that if players are cheating that they get taken down by the game operators, but its not as easy as you all seem to think it is.


    You're saying its clear as day that these players are cheating. Unfortunately, with the implementation of the marketplace and dark matter in general, its difficult to distinguish between legal game mechanics and pushing. On top of that, much investigation has to be done to discover whether or not players are violating rules. It is NOT clear as day, like you seem to think. I'm sorry, its not. What doesn't make ANYTHING better is the proverbial crusade you guys seem to be parading right now. Nobody wants to ban you guys and gals, but if you continue to break the rules we have set, we will ban you.


    I also want to point out, nobody was censored. All posts seem to still be there, they were just warned. You want to call a ban censoring? We have a points system for warnings, and to earn a ban requires only a handful of warnings. Its simple. Do your best to abide by the rules, which hundreds of users do every day without issue, and we won't have to ban anyone.


    I am sorry the ticket system is not to your liking or standards, but it is what we have. If you choose not to use it, that is your prerogative. It is there for you to use, both for the Board and the Game.


    I am sorry how frustrating all of this is. I have been playing this for a long time and have encountered my fair share of cheaters, miscreants, and downright dirty players. I know its frustrating to not be able to see them banned immediately, but please don't stop reporting things just because the ticket system isn't to your liking or the ban hammer isn't smashing constantly. The game operators need user input to assist them with their investigations. They are volunteers, just like us. The problem with the game operators, however, is that their job requires hours upon hours of time invested. If you have the knowledge needed and would like to try and help out, you are welcome to sign up to interview for a game operator position.

  • "1) fleet save and 2) go after the cheaters. Sometimes you have to take matters into your own hands."


    1. We do fleetsave. (not that it's safe when they can literally MD every one of your moons in one night)

    2. We are going after them. (but one cannot fight against the way of the wind)


    Works when you can manage to keep up with someone who has several multiaccounts? I think not...

    They can literally mobile in, print a moon and a jumpgate and MD any moon they want at any time.

    There is no safety for anyone as long as they're able to do this. Real people have to sleep sometime.

    People with activity scripts and multiple accounts do not.

    These guys are literally setting scripts to probe certain places as soon as they pop activity.

    In this case with the use of the market, it doesn't matter if we hit the cheaters, they will just buy more fleet from their multiaccounts and move back up several billion points within the same day.


    You want to talk about cheaters in Zibal? Try a day in our shoes on Octans, It isn't fun anymore. Regular players are playing OGame. The suspects in question are playing Moon Deletion Simulator 2020.


    The Marketplace feature has empowered cheaters. They can have 6 bots running and building fleet for them at a time, buy the fleet for minimum metal price and keep growing through being hit.


    You can literally go and look at certain peoples point gains the day after they get hit for a large amount of fleet and watch them soar back up. That's fishy.


    One of the suspected cheaters almost got crashed by some other suspects the other day, and he was BANNED in the middle of his fleet being locked. That's fishy.


    I have seen people send in tickets with hard evidence of people admitting to cheating. And those same people are still playing in the server to this day. That's fishy.


    I have seen screenshots of certain people trying to sell their accounts, and screenshots of certain people offering to buy them. This has been reported, and ignored. That's fishy.


    The Ban hammer isn't just "not smashing constantly" in this universe, it's not smashing seemingly at all. Except when it's convenient for certain folk.... That's fishy.


    If you think they would actually take me as a GO I will seriously consider sitting in for an interview.

    Cosmos own resident Outlaw Leave your fleet sitting if you want a moonshot <3

  • Everything is so fishy. Fishy doesn't make a ban. Good evidence does. What good evidence is defined as may not be the same definition you adhere to. Game Forge sets boundaries for banning players and certain criteria needs to be met. Not everything is a conspiracy. Sometimes you just don't have enough evidence. It happens.


    Buying/selling accounts is hard to enforce for us on the board. If someone violates our rule of asking to speak outside of the board, they get permanently banned. As far as messages on Discord, Skype, etc., this is not enough to ban. Anyone can masquerade as a certain user and get them to be banned this way, since you can modify nicknames on many of the popular chat services.


    If you start following rules properly on the Board I'm sure it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility :thumbsup:

  • Posted from the thread that Marshmello quoted:


    My view is this, if you don't like cheaters, botters (or whatever) then:


    1. Form an Alliance of clean players and go after the cheaters. Hit them, hound them, annoy them mercilessly (within the rules). If you are in an opposing Alliance of clean players, put your differences aside and work together. Once you are successful you can kick the crap out of each other again.

    2. If the cheaters are too large to take on, leave the uni en masse and leave them to it. Not much sport for them in ghost town.

    3. Simply don't respond to the cheater on the forum, we all know they love their 'air time' - just don't give them the due here. They will post and next to nobody will respond.

    4. Give the Mods everything you can on a ticket. We know, the Mods know, who the cheaters are. We also know the Mods are often using bows and arrows against guns, but occasionally an arrow finds an eye.


    Perhaps, sadly, option 2 is your route, Iso.

  • Anyone of gamestaff wants to ban cheaters and they want to catch those who don't go by the rule. They ban when they can ban. You'd be surprised, but we know about bots and scripts - and as I said elsewhere, there has to be undisputable factual evidence so that they can be banned. Believe me, we do not want cheaters getting away at all.


    The problem is though that on the boards we have no way to even closely seeing if the accusation is true or not. It doesn't mean you might be wrong, it simply means we cannot let that happen as we don't have real evidenc, and the persons being accused could be innocent as well.



    Be head to serve, not to reign(Bernard von Clairvaux)

  • The problem you seem to have with it is publicity.


    You don't like people seeing how dissatisfied your playerbase is with the current state of the game.


    Your process for catching these cheaters involves bows and arrows? Perhaps you should think about upgrading your tools.


    If you are honestly to the point you suggest we just leave the server because it's full of cheaters, First of all, that is immeasurably sad. Secondly, guess where the cheaters go when their uni dies!?


    That's right... the new universes.


    Don't respond to them? They dont care if we respond or not. The board means nothing to anyone because it's just a record of what happened and when it happened.


    Our uni is plagued by cheaters to the point most of the top tens, solo and otherwise are by people we all know are cheating.


    If you have a reason to suspect cheating for the players posting these hits, maybe you shouldn't be moving them to the top tens. (it does give them their "air time" afterall)


    Your rulebook for this game is a joke. It's time for a new rulebook.


    Running multiaccounts? Use a VPN so it can't be proven.


    Buying accounts? Do it through a third party so it can't be proven.


    Running scripts that instaprobe on activity? It's okay, you're just a "highly active player"


    Get crashed by someone legit? It's okay, these things happen. Buy a ton of fleet from your multiaccount on the market and grab the DF for yourself because you have the fastest recs in the server.


    Get your moon popped on a dirty fleetsave? It's okay. Get yourself banned so that others don't get your fleet.


    Server overrun with cheaters? Mods not able to do anything because they don't have enough proof? Rely on your playerbase to handle it for you. I'm sure it'll be fine.


    (If not, you can always tell them to go play on another server full of cheaters and perpetuate the problem.)


    Players upset in the forums about the ineffectiveness of the system? Dispatch Madoka to warn or ban them all.


    Players till upset? Dispatch the bandwagon of mods and GO's. (they can all like each others posts!) ((It may also be noted that the cheaters seem to like your guys posts pretty often. Gosh I wonder why))


    Oh... are your players really still upset at your inept customer service and support system? Oh well. Not like we could do anything to prevent it. (Except maybe everything)


    Better lock the thread I guess. We did all we could. (Even though we didn't but whatever who cares.)


    Great job team. Really proud of you guys.


    Cosmos own resident Outlaw Leave your fleet sitting if you want a moonshot <3

  • Heres the biggest problem. When activity that is obviously cheating doesn't have reactions that are appropriate, then we begin to suspect corruption. the moon pop incident is where that comes up. could it have been a coincidence? sure, but when you let the people who are obviously at best abusing the system and at worse massively cheating get away with it, then we as a player base begin to suspect the staff of being complicit at best, and corrupt at worst. Allowing us some level of venting on the boards without being warned(like not outright saying they are cheating, but rather poking fun at it), it raises the level of visible issue with the game. you as staff can then take this to gameforge and tell them hey, give us better tools or you'll lose your game. this game has been around for over 20 years and the player base is 1/10th of what it used to be, in part because of cheating and not listening to its playerbase

  • It seems majority of your issues is misdirected.


    We do not create the rules, Gameforge does.


    We do not create the tools, Gameforge does.


    We do not create the universes, Gameforge does.


    We do not create policy, Gameforge does.


    We do not create guidelines, Gameforge does.


    We do not create support system, Gameforge does.



    So I'd say you're barking up the wrong tree here. We all do whatever we can do in the frame of riules and tools and guidelines we were given. If that's not good enough for you, apply to be a GO and put your money where your mouth is. If you don't want to, write a letter to GF or go to Karlsrhue and protest in front of the GF building. Other than that... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • GF may have indicated they wanted no cheating discussion/accusations on the Board, but we choose what, when, and how to enforce it. Personally, I will go after it every time. All it does is lead to a flame/trolling war. You're lucky the players you're accusing are quiet, usually we have to deal with accusations and flaming, sprinkle a little insult and trolling.


  • Heres the biggest problem. When activity that is obviously cheating doesn't have reactions that are appropriate, then we begin to suspect corruption. the moon pop incident is where that comes up. could it have been a coincidence? sure, but when you let the people who are obviously at best abusing the system and at worse massively cheating get away with it, then we as a player base begin to suspect the staff of being complicit at best, and corrupt at worst. Allowing us some level of venting on the boards without being warned(like not outright saying they are cheating, but rather poking fun at it), it raises the level of visible issue with the game. you as staff can then take this to gameforge and tell them hey, give us better tools or you'll lose your game. this game has been around for over 20 years and the player base is 1/10th of what it used to be, in part because of cheating and not listening to its playerbase

    Allow you to vent? What do you think this, right here, is? Do you think I'm super pumped that I have to read 400 words of rambling rage?


    Obviously cheating? What activity is obviously cheating? Shoot me the answer in a ticket.

  • I feel your pain, Iso, but if Gameforge don't give the Mod team the necessary tools to tackle the cheaters....


    As Cassandra mentions, they could ban an innocent in error. They may well have done just that.


    I realised some time ago that playing to be top 10 here has become irrelevant and/or impossible due to the many reasons you have listed. I simply take part because I want to, and chat with a few folks here on and off, which is the extent of my OGame.


    The Mods know, as you and I, that this game is already on a very slippery slope, which requires immediate intervention from Gameforge to even try and rectify.


    I would love more transparency from the Mod team, but I can appreciate why I don't get it. If we opened up all and sundry to accusation all the time, this forum would probably become a weaponised shit-storm overnight.


    I'm an OGamer, much like you, and your words likely speak for a large part of this community, and I'm glad the Mods have stood in good stead with your post. I suspect largely because (unsaid) they agree with you and wish they could do more for you.


    Gameforge giving the Mods the ammunition to fight, none of us are holding our breath on that one.

  • Of course we wish we could do more for y'all. Its not that we don't believe you, its that:


    1) We CANNOT allow people to openly accuse/discuss cheating/bans. This thread being an exception, as we are trying to have a healthy discussion free of specific accusations.


    2) We don't have any power over the rules and tools. We don't have a direct phone number for the GF executive table to call them up and order some changes. They need to hear users in the feedback section, let the CoMa bring that information to the table. You doing all you've done here DOES NOT help your cause, it only hurts it, because it leads to you guys getting warned/banned.


    I'm not going to give you guys a free pass on the forum because you're dealing with alleged cheaters in-game. Not going to happen. Sooner you understand that, sooner we can all get back to work.

  • We don't have a direct phone number for the GF executive table to call them up and order some changes.


    "Hello, Hans? I'd like to order some banhammers with some spare DM on the side. Yes, that'd be PERM topping. Mhm, mhm, I understand. Make that sauce out of cheater's tears please."

  • How about you use your contacts in the system to pas this post on to a CoMa so they can do something about it?


    OH WAIT.


    That would be doing something helpful.


    Because it's impossible to get a GF employee's attention regarding this game unless you're staff.


    I wrote a ticket once, adressed to the CoMa. It got closed without even so much as a reply.


    I have zero faith in the system working the way it is intended. so if you want a CoMa to read this as feedback, Tell them to.

    Cosmos own resident Outlaw Leave your fleet sitting if you want a moonshot <3

  • I would lie if I'd say I wouldn't know you as a user around here, so I am not surprised by your post.


    It is, however, also not really up to the CoMa to change the game as such. They know about the issues and it is firwaded, the real decisionmaking though for the game's future is elsewhere. The CoMas do forward the concerns of the players, no matter which community, but the final decision is made in a different department.


    Everything you have listed is not unknown, by the way mostly the same concerns as on the German community, and is forwarded.



    Be head to serve, not to reign(Bernard von Clairvaux)

  • We don't have a direct phone number for the GF executive table to call them up and order some changes.


    "Hello, Hans? I'd like to order some banhammers with some spare DM on the side. Yes, that'd be PERM topping. Mhm, mhm, I understand. Make that sauce out of cheater's tears please."

    Give us the contact info - I could write some meaningful feedback to them through my lawyer for the fun of it :)


    Running mulitple accounts aslong as they dont interfer with each other from same IP is allowed. And its legal to trade between them on the marketplace. I mean how many times do someone have to state the obvious, it aint cheating ! But it feels like it.
    In a normal world - their should be a slight adjustment there. In the tax law you have certain phrases for it when its abuse and the purpose behind the transactions is just gains thats unheard of otherwise on a stand alone basis with armlenght.
    ...and for the Biggest concern of them all, why multiaccounts is Good - the discoverer class and expeditions spamming e.g scripts and bots your refering too.
    Well there should be a cap or "roof" on how many expeditions you could do on a single day. In that way, things would get more in line - where upgrading Astrophyscis should increase it flat. It would solve the true "elephant" in the room - that is the excess ressource gains from it.
    If you read the rulebook for once...

    Regarding the Top 10 - well first thing first, they are for sure more activ then you, better prepared and have more efficient strategy labeled out on how to reach top 10 in the first place. I myself currently on position between rank 40-35 can easily see that. Some may or may not have excess gains, but its mostly out of cleaver use of game mechanics thats perfectly allowed.

    My advice - Enjoy the game your way, and try to have the most fun out of it.
    The day you finally see one of the Top 10 on the wrong side in the combat sectiton, well that's what everyone plays for :)

    Ending - As you saw today, Gameforge are currently gonna test out Merger-Items, which means if your Universe sux, then spam expeditions 24/7 during Dark Matter x 9 Event, purchase it and change, and hope the otherside of the wormhole are in your favour :)



  • Please read what Cassandra said, multiple times. Piink does her best all the time, but she also has a life outside of oGame. She is one of the best CoMas we have ever had and she has done a lot to keep the game alive.

  • Hey hey people!


    I've just started here. Haven't played for a while. Went to the forum to read about the universe and stumbled upon this topic.


    First, Dela, https://en.ogame.gameforge.com/main/rules

    Quote

    Every player is allowed to control a single account per universe.


    I just want to clarify a few things. You know how sometimes things that we don't understand frustrate us? Well, same thing happens here I think.

    Players don't understand why admins don't ban cheaters? Well, please let me explain it.

    I consult on bot detection systems for far more complicated and better budgeted projects than this game, so I have some insights that may be helpful.


    Admins do ban players who verifiably abuse the system. Believe me, a good cheater could completely ruin the game for the whole server. I've seen game servers that were wiped completely only cuz of a few cheaters who managed to ruin the economy completely. I've also seen severs where admins would ban people who just look like cheaters, not having done anything wrong. You don't want it. Admins are interested in banning cheaters cuz the only unfair advantage that should be possible is through the money. Thus, cheaters actually compete with admins if left unmanaged.


    Why not all cheaters are banned? It's impossible. Well, I mean, there's Barmin Patch, but we don't want to ban all cheaters via banning all players completely. It's physically impossible to have a universal bot detection. Also it's an old game with little budget and a good anti-cheating protection requires very expensive specialists who know the technologies used for botting very well. As well as some powerful user tracking, analysts and data scientists. Still, majority of cheaters are being caught because vast majority of them don't really know how their cheats work or what footprint they leave behind.


    What you call cheaters may be just hardcore players. Maybe some tricks like having the game opened at all times on a dedicated screen to be able to see attacks. I used to know people who would play like that many years ago. Although really, writing a script that would issue a sound on every attack is an extremely trivial task considering the way certain parts of the game are implemented. Again, it's a very old game, using ancient technology. They probably didn't even know of Selenium back then. Not sure if it even existed. Even if it did, its API wasn't as good as it is now for sure. It's difficult to improve a game's protection if it uses old technologies without Selenium and testing frameworks in mind.


    In short: there's pretty much nothing that can be done about it. Admins don't want players to know that it is possible to remain undetected, so they just prohibit talking about the problem. Well, to avoid more people trying cheats and getting banned.


    Just like in real life, it is possible to get away with even a terrible crime. Yes, it is possible to continuously cheat and remain undetected. BUT! It requires profound low-level knowledge and, to be honest, it actually requires a lot of effort. You don't wanna commit crimes in real life? Same here. Do people commit crimes? They do. Majority gets caught. Some get away. No government has yet got to the perfection.


    Talking about bots. Even Google can't deal with them. They lose millions of dollars on Adwords monthly directly due to being unable to detect bots with 100% precision without hindering the user experience vastly.


    Sorry, I'm just trying to bring a little bit of clarity here. Trying to show that the problem is not trivial to solve and the moderators/admins should not be blamed for sure.