Lets talk about pushing/multi accounts, and the state of Ogame

  • My ally mate RyaRaineS is a bit of a MMORPG buff, and he in particular tracks the players who are doing best in terms of expos

    So he noticed these 2 accounts some time back, because they were destroying 10's of billions of pirate ships in a single fight while only losing 31 points (1 PF)

    On top of both accounts being only a few weeks old at the time


    It stumped us for quite a while how you could lose so little, based on other fights with slightly higher losses it became clear they are using RIPs

    In order to lose 0 rips in fights with hundreds/thousands of rips, the weapons tech needs to be between 0-3, so that pirates end up with 0 weapons tech.




    Which brings me to the point of this thread.

    This Murker .ru account went from being created to 958M points (rank 3) on the first day


    This Xanthus.org account went from long v mode at 10k points to 500M points (rank 2) in two days.


    Since then they have been running all rip expos for almost no losses.

    The .RU account is now rank 1 world wide after 7 weeks

    The Xanthus acc is now rank 1 Xanthus and 23 world wide after 6 weeks.


    In both cases the only account in the unis that could have fronted the amount of resources needed were the previous rank 1 accounts

    No normal player creates a new account in a fresh uni and doesn't research weapon tech

    Nor would either account have been allowed to grow and surpass the previous rank 1's, let alone be pulled with hundreds of billions of res by them


    GF is working on a merge/merge item? Whats the fucking point?

    We got guys running multis and using MP to push. We got guys running expos 24/7 and selling via MP to higher rank guys

    We have blatant back and forth MP selling that only benefits the higher ranked players

    We have the AI experiment that is Leda

    Where the number 1 .org solo hit was made in a universe 7 months old, where a player instad 350B fleet after 2 months of v mode saving to make a hit

    Who can legitimately explain a player going from 250M points to 510M (after losing his 250M in the hit) in 10 days while never staying out of v mode



    And on top of it all we have pirate expos.

    Which are exponential in nature, to the point rank 1 accounts are making multis (allegedly :rolleyes2:) to take advantage of the mechanics and to spend res faster.


    It has been 8 Months now since 7.0 launched and people started pushing with the MP

    It has been ~7 months since people started catching on and complaining about expo DFs

    I make 3+ months mine production a day from pirate DFs

    PVE is so profitable I make more in a few pirate fights than any top ten in Europa has made

    Even if GF fixes pirate DFs today, it is already too late

    Due to the exponential nature of things, rank 1 accounts are farther ahead than ever, the top 10 are further ahead of the top 20 than ever


    The sad thing is I don't even know why I am writing this book.

    Bots are seemingly more prevalent than at any point in Ogame history

    Multi accounts don't seem to get punished

    If we file tickets we are told MP trades are legal, or "I'll look into it" and nothing changes

    You complain about it on the board the Mods will warn you for off topic or cheating accusations


    I don't play any of these unis, I just watch this ridiculous crap happen week after week with nothing being done.




    I don't even know who I could tag here that would make a difference. I was tagging piink and NoMoreAngel about MP pushing 6 months ago and nothing has changed

    Does GF listen to the COMAs? Do the COMAs listen to the communities?

    Current Universes: Zibal
    Former Universes: 3, 18, 30, 35, Jupiter, Nekkar, Quantum, Xanthus, Fenrir, Janice.fr, Europa, Kalyke, Norma
    Basic 20%: 1000+
    Advanced 20%: ~300
    Top Tens: 13-1

  • thank you for all these info

    if you do not spend some time into it, it will escape you as it did me


    i like the part about RIPs, can you give us more info

    about what heppens when BH hits them, as my concern are not loss from fights but loseing entire fleet

    how does it compare to when you have high tech, lets say 19 or 20

    how does it compare to other fleet comps as it has long flyght time so you do less expo in a day

    I am makeing Silverwind's days

    And I am savage now!

  • I'm hardly an expert, I am not running RIPs in expo

    But it is clear it would save me billions of deut a week to use rips instead of lf/lc or BC

    RIPs are still very good even at higher "normal" techs, but you cannot achieve fights without losses
    It has been a while since I ran the sims on the rips, but I suggest you check yourself.


    As for losing the fleet... Most common expo fleet comps pay themselves off after 15-20 expo battles

    LF/LC, BC, RIPs will all work in the long term.

    This is why that RU account is now worth 20T res after 7 weeks.

    Current Universes: Zibal
    Former Universes: 3, 18, 30, 35, Jupiter, Nekkar, Quantum, Xanthus, Fenrir, Janice.fr, Europa, Kalyke, Norma
    Basic 20%: 1000+
    Advanced 20%: ~300
    Top Tens: 13-1

  • 300K BC vs 1M BC (30% Pirates)



    600K BC vs 1M BC (60% aliens)


    They both clearly profit.

    I did calculations some weeks back, including merchanting for deut to rebuild (but not deut to send waves)

    Assuming 11 fights per day (a bit high)

    Also I didnt include the medium or large aliens encounter, because we typically have 1 or less of those per day.


    Current Universes: Zibal
    Former Universes: 3, 18, 30, 35, Jupiter, Nekkar, Quantum, Xanthus, Fenrir, Janice.fr, Europa, Kalyke, Norma
    Basic 20%: 1000+
    Advanced 20%: ~300
    Top Tens: 13-1

  • and on all that botter, cheater, pusher, multy, AI stuff i have nothing to add except GF is doing what is doing, read out their actions to get info what they think about game, us and breaking the rules

    I am makeing Silverwind's days

    And I am savage now!

  • Thank you Lonestar for takin the time to highlight the sad state of the game currently.


    We should start a petition - either Gameforge get rid of the Market Place & sort this expo BS by Xmas or we all quit the game once and for all.


    GKP.gif

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Great King Pat ().

  • As I know, the world top 1 use weapon 3 battleship to exp :)


    and surely the exp is exponential growth, so now he is 18B points, and some weeks later he will be 180B points :)


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    about bot and market push, I think we can't talk too much here, on a board lack of speech freedom, talking too much would lead to lock and ban.


    GO will tell us they are doing the case, but always nothing happen, so I think it's time to bot ourself, or leave the game :)

  • I too am sick of this rubbish. Some of us spend years trying to grow our accounts and GF come along and enable a perfectly legal way to push an account from 0 to No.! in weeks. I completely agree with the petition idea and I am also thinking unless things change there really is no point in continuing to play this game.


    Scripters/bots - very easy to spot. GF choosing to ignore them and ruin the game.


    Marketplace - Apparently designed as the perfect way to push. Not only can you abuse rates very easily, but in addition they made it so it is impossible to time any transport fleets back, as they don't really "arrive" until the player is online and accepts the trade.

    Expos - I can't think how else to put this - F. Ridiculous


    Marketplace - should be removed completely.

    Scripters - GF should get their act together and ban these accounts (permanently).

    Expos - Keep them to find items/resources and risks of blackholes/delays, but remove the battle element completely.


    Simple.

    But I have low expectation of any fixes and expect Ogame will be void of any real players within 12 months.

    Universe 1: Thunder Child [ASSASSIN]

  • As a guy from merkur, let me clear up some misunderstandings.


    1. RIPs in expo are not profitable without low weapons tech, they fly at a loss. You can't just simulate some pirates and call it a day, you need the sum of results from all events multiplied by their probability, and that includes black holes.
    2. RIPs with low weapons teches are not that great either. They're a solution to a building speed/resources spending issue, not a high profit composition.
    3. I don't even fly RIPs to expo, as someone above wrote :D
    4. No multiaccounts were used in the transition. Simply saved resources for a week, asked a friend to make a new acc, slowly over the course of 2 weeks pulled it up to my level, then switched to that account and gave my old one to an ally. There's nothing illegal about that, and nothing difficult either. As far as I know, Singularity went about it in a similar fashion. I am not sure why some people assume that any time there is cooperation and help involved in the game, that it has to be multi. Some of us have been around forever and have plenty of friends to ask for help if needed.
    5. There's some losses in the transition - market tax on ship transfer, LC's are useless with low weapons, etc, etc. There'd be no reason to do that if there was an option to downgrade teches, or if expo DF didn't exist in the first place.
    6. The hillarious part is that after switching accounts, the crazy lag that I had has disappeared, which suggests that the lag problem that some people experience, is not just server-specific, and gameforge has broken some optimization regarding the age of the accounts. My ally who plays on my old acc now, is reporting same lag as I used to have...I doubt a few extra planets make page load speed five times worse, so there's probably some issues. Maybe with message/espionage/combat report storage, etc.


    Expedition exponential growth and unregulated marketplace trading, of course, are terribly bad for the game. I gave a long rant on the main thread here on .org as for the reasons why.


    Whatever botting that occurs in Leda (if it indeed occurs, didn't play there and can say), is obv bad for the game if people get away with it.

    Cheers.

  • no you are wrong, to exp with DS is not a good idea.

    our group start exp some months before, but until now, it's still too bad. see the picture. the point growing is very diappoint as DS loss too much in black hole.

    board.en.ogame.gameforge.com/wcf/index.php?attachment/7232/

    board.en.ogame.gameforge.com/wcf/index.php?attachment/7233/




    why the world top 1 grow so fast. I think :


    1. 0.5% duet comsup ( most important)

    2. many accounts building battleship and sell them in market ( The faster capital flows, the higher profit )

    3. he can exp 24 hours per day ( we all know what does it mean)

  • 1. 0.5% duet comsup ( most important)

    2. many accounts building battleship and sell them in market ( The faster capital flows, the higher profit )

    3. he can exp 24 hours per day ( we all know what does it mean)

    1. Actually, 60%. And x3 fleet speed, which isn't optimal by any means. Just started early and never used a bad composition.
    2. That is correct, and scaling is a big factor for exponential growth @ expos.
    3. It means that I don't need to fleetsave, and lose sleep to do it. Not 24 hours per day, either...I clock about 100 expos a day, which is 12.5 waves. 24 hours would be 16 expo waves, if you account for delays, probably something like 15.
  • Thank you for taking the time to post this Lonestar and RyaRaineS . I have been playing an awful long time and have seen the game go through a number of different iterations, and I have to say that version 7 has caused problems unlike anything that came before.


    I was rank 1 in virgo (through a merge accident not actually through hard work) but I maintained this position for over a year by working hard with RIPs, I could make 200kk+ res per day RIP farming which kept me ahead. I put a lot of time and effort into building my account to compete in this way, and over a quarter of my points are now in deathstars. Sadly, however, I can now make more res from one modest sized pirate fight than I can from 10 waves of RIP raiding. Since the update I have fallen back to rank three (which should be five but there have been some big black holes recently) and the current rank 1 who does nothing but leverage expeditions is 120m points ahead of me.


    Readers may ask "why cry for Firestorm? RIP farmers are terrible people and he didn't even earn his rank" - and they would be absolutely right to, all of this is true. The point of my story above is that the current settings are killing the game by making expedition farming so extremely overpowered that all other styles of gameplay simply aren't worth pursuing if you want to gain ranks. This isn't just for me, this is for the fleeters, raiders and miners out there who are also thinking "what's the point?" The inevitable result is that players like me who don't want to play this way are seriously considering hanging up our o-boots because the style of play we enjoyed for years simply cannot compete. One of the best aspects of ogame was that you could succeed and become number one if you played smart, regardless of your playstyle, but version 7 has resulted in only one style of gameplay being competitive and that has seriously diminished the game.


    In my view the only way for this to be fixed before we see a serious exodus from the community is to fix expeditions through a cap on debris generated and fix the woefully underpowered general and collector classes. Whilst I could live with collector being underpowered, given that it is designed around low intensity gameplay, it is utterly pointless for the high intensity player killing class being so weak. It doesn't help of course that discoverer's side buffs (increased phalanx range and increased plaet size) are both buffs which would thematically benefit collector and general respectively much more than discoverer. Improvements have been discussed plenty elsewhere but gameforge need to start taking this very seriously very quickly if they want to maintain the player base here.

  • 1. 0.5% duet comsup ( most important)

    2. many accounts building battleship and sell them in market ( The faster capital flows, the higher profit )

    3. he can exp 24 hours per day ( we all know what does it mean)

    1. Actually, 60%. And x3 fleet speed, which isn't optimal by any means. Just started early and never used a bad composition.
    2. That is correct, and scaling is a big factor for exponential growth @ expos.
    3. It means that I don't need to fleetsave, and lose sleep to do it. Not 24 hours per day, either...I clock about 100 expos a day, which is 12.5 waves. 24 hours would be 16 expo waves, if you account for delays, probably something like 15.

    0.5 and 6x is best.


    I'm in a speed 3x server too, but I can only exp arould 80 waves per day :竖起大拇指:

  • piink Any answer on this?As i said before before doing merge,there are bigger problems to solve.Bot ,script users and players that grow in month few hundred million points..with all multi accs they have.Until you @piink stay inactive on the board this game and this community will vanish in few years.As Coma you need to do something with your collegues in GF,or just money matters from some players even if they are cheaters?

  • piink Any answer on this?As i said before before doing merge,there are bigger problems to solve.Bot ,script users and players that grow in month few hundred million points..with all multi accs they have.Until you piink stay inactive on the board this game and this community will vanish in few years.As Coma you need to do something with your collegues in GF,or just money matters from some players even if they are cheaters?


    when a new player come, he pay for a bot, and then use the bot to exp 24 hours, buy comander with DM from exp, needless to buy any more, he is very happy.


    I don't know where GF earn moeny from? except GF develop the bot themselves :)

  • To answer the questions, yes, the CoMas do read the community. At least I'm aware of the discussions both here and on discord and we do our best with what we have to catch cheaters, but all I can do is forward our problems in the communities over and over.

    We do investigate bot reports daily in the teams and Iam aware of the outstanding work the teams are doing.


    GF does not own these ilegal tools people use to cheat, that I can also tell even though I have already said that somewhere else several times.


    The development team work their best to bring things live and improve as much as possible, unfortunately the resources are limited and the speed in which things happen are not ideal. We CoMas cannot change or shift tasks from the development team, but I assure you we continue reporting daily the feedback we see in here going from the request of bringing the merchant back (and giving the reasons why), to aiming to cut off the bots functionalities or balancing classes.

  • Agree with what everyone else is saying, as a Systems Architect there seems a very simple solution ...


    1. Keep the Marketplace but the trades are at a fixed/non changeable rate.

    2. Make the Pirate/Alien battles relevant to the size of the fleet involved, at some point the Aliens would win kind of example ...



    Best Solo - 1.4bn Profit - Uni1.us
    Best ACS - 5.7bn Profit - Uni1.org

  • Thank you on your answer,i really hope some things will change soon.