A calm examination of the Class Rebalance patch

  • Okay. I want to start off with the Metal Bonus one: now that is how you troll everyone like a boss! Whoever came up with that needs to get a raise. Supreme job man, I am speechless... :thumbsup:


    After that laugh, lets move to actually interesting things.


    General class:

    Fleetspeed works in 5% steps - I think this is actually really nice. This will make for some advanced plays in skilled hands. At first glance I don't see a particular drawback.

    5 additional moon slots - hey, why not? It is free stuff, and makes it cheaper and quicker to develop a fresh moon. Nothing wrong with this one!

    Increased storage capacity for recyclers and pathfinders - another very cool and useful bonus, 20% extra storage is great, it is annoying to have to build so many recyclers anyway these days.

    Discount on finishing Ships with premium currency - it wouldn't be GameForge if there wasn't something involving DM, but honestly, the way DM halving works, this is really not as impactful as it seems. It is a small buff in the grand scheme of things, and really doesn't bring some insane imbalance to the class.


    Collector class:


    Crawler expanded functionality - this is perhaps useful for some dead, empty server where you just log in whenever and randomly click things. I don't see this being an impactful buff. Still not worth taking Collector unless you are a completely passive player, at which point if you build Crawlers, you are just putting a target on your back, soooo...

    Discount on finishing Buildings with premium currency - pretty much same remark as for General discount. This is largely useless, especially being on Collector. The grand majority is going to keep ignoring Collector, it is still not worth it.


    Discoverer class:


    50% less pirates/aliens - this makes pirates/aliens completely unprofitable. We have to run some calculations, but if I eyeballed it right, with this change, you are either looking at pulling even or at a consistent loss with pirate/alien fights. This is really good for the game, this is the single change that makes all the impact. Whether pirate/alien farmers like it or not, this is what is actually good for the game. Too bad it is 9 months late. It remains to be seen how this will interact with the merger item; because letting a sick pirate built fleet merge into a virgin uni is an outright trash idea. What needs to be done now is make a very strict border between every universe created by now, and every universe created past this point. This is a great start, but there is still work to be done, GameForge!

    weekly item finding bonus cap - less useless items, more resources/fleet? This is a buff in my books.

    Discount on finishing Research with premium currency - this is a nice bonus. Very useful. Research times for high levels were an annoying bottleneck anyway, and a lot of people are willing to cut down 1 month of research for a bit of DM. This makes it even more appealing to do.



    In conclusion, this is, overall, a step in the right direction, I feel like. But moving forward, there really needs to be some kind of limitation on what can be done with the obscene fleets built during the 9 months of absolute nonsense with pirate fights. The easiest solution would be to just completely separate new universes from old universes, and have a more balanced game going forward. Since there is really no good fix for any universe already destroyed with an incredibly flawed system, this seems like the least invasive option. Let people have what they have built and do what they want with it, but limit them from destroying the experience in new universes in the future.


    Every coin has two sides, and so does this balance patch. It is not entirely good or satisfying, and it is extremely too late, but on the positive side, this is finally something that brings an actually needed gameplay change. I hope we see more in the future - not just greedy money grabs, but also real fixes and improvements to the game to actually justify buying DM.

  • Are you serious? Instead of giving the other classes the opportunity to rise and catch higher rankeds they have just BLOWN ALL UP.


    I preferred they do that Crawler with a bigger limit, nerf disco by a 20% or any like that. Now they restricted the only gameplay that was able.


    Anyways upon merge General will be the only stuff worth it.

  • As far as i read it, the 50% lowered chance of meeting pirates or aliens on expedition just means that pirates and aliens will come up less often. The profits will be exactly the same as they were before though when they do come up


    I like the collector changes though, using a slot 15 setup with fusion reactors may make it hard for me though

    High ranked miner, been playing way too long.
    Also have a Youtube channel with the same name (MCW UK), and I buy deut at 2.4/1.4/1

  • That metal though:lol:


    piink What does the overload on crawlers part mean for collector?

    Does this mean that you get to have for example 2x the crawlers per mine level as disco/general?

    Also, if that is true then part 1 of your collector post means that you can for example have 3x crawlers per mine level as disco/general if you have geologist?


    For disco what is the chance of hitting pirate and alien now?


    Just a general note, it seems like general could be the new disco here based on the buffs. Depends on the new crawler capabilities, but we all know that defense isn't going to keep out determined fleeters so even if crawlers were uncapped no way to get them all built and recoup production without being crashed. Generals going crawler crashing anyone? :P


    Overall I am happy there is something, but not sure that this was the answer. Hopefully this is not the final patch regarding this issue. Maybe there will be another patch.


    *Edit, crawlers already take an immense amount of energy for collectors with high mines so thanks for not addressing that issue but adding to the problem in true GF style :doofylook::headbanging:

  • 50% less pirates/aliens - this makes pirates/aliens completely unprofitable. We have to run some calculations, but if I eyeballed it right, with this change, you are either looking at pulling even or at a consistent loss with pirate/alien fights. This is really good for the game, this is the single change that makes all the impact. Whether pirate/alien farmers like it or not, this is what is actually good for the game. Too bad it is 9 months late. It remains to be seen how this will interact with the merger item; because letting a sick pirate built fleet merge into a virgin uni is an outright trash idea. What needs to be done now is make a very strict border between every universe created by now, and every universe created past this point. This is a great start, but there is still work to be done, GameForge!

    Are you serious? There were no Expo DFs pre-MCO. They introduced Expo DFs and advertised the Explorer class with increased Expo results and Expo DFs. And now they are giving the Explorer a perk that makes the DFs completely useless. Why give a class a perk that makes the play style for which it was designed completely worthless? Did you ever play an MMORPG that gave a ranged class a perk that reduced its range? Exactly, me neither. That's exactly how illogical that change is.


    So why were Expo DFs introduced in the first place if they are going to make them completely useless now?

  • Seems like too little too late. Not only did this fail to address the huge disparity in points between classes but it doesn't seem to really do much to anything but collector. Maybe I'm wrong but general still seems pretty useless unless I'm a very active uni. Collector got some good buffs maybe the only class done right. Disco class still seems hugely overpowered even with reduced A/P encounters. I guess we will see how it plays out, a step in the right direction regardless

    Uni 1
    Zibal
    ~RIP Taurus~

  • So one of things that as a collector seems mostly useless is is the bonus res produced by crawlers. Haven’t crunched all the numbers yet but I will later. So basically for double energy you get 50% res from crawlers...which is already low. So based on 14 planets at 920 crawlers is going to cost me an additional 46,000 energy per planet for what’s going to amount to roughly 1.5 million extra res per week across my entire account. That’s absolutely laughable.

  • Disco class still seems hugely overpowered even with reduced A/P encounters.

    Protip: Do some maths using all those expedition statistics. -50% chance for encounters means Discoverer is dead, Expo DFs are utterly useless now and statistically only result in a loss.

  • This is definitely not sufficient to address the expo issue


    This isnt even a good week for me in terms of fights.

    I had 2 BH for a total of ~45B res lost, and I spent about 4B in deut

    Even with 50% fights I would be making billions and billions in profit without a BH


    Now the RNG of getting BH and fights will determine who is growing large


    Collector buffs? Great I switch to collector and make 400M more a week :lol:

    OR I keep running expos and if I get even ONE pirate fight of profit It will beat a months worth of collector bonuses

    I used to be a miner rank ~5, now if I was mining I wouldnt even be competitive


    Its like GF isnt even trying :rofl:


    Current Universes: Europa
    Former Universes: 3, 18, 30, 35, Jupiter, Nekkar, Quantum, Xanthus, Fenrir, Janice.fr, Kalyke, Norma
    Basic 20%: 1000+
    Advanced 20%: ~300
    Top Tens: 13-1

  • Maybe try some maths. -50% chance on fights make it statistically unprofitable to go for Expo DFs.

  • I'm happy about the metal part because it's a logical thing to have planets in different slots produce different amounts of resources.


    The thing that worries me is how "Fleetspeed works now in 5% steps". That sounds like a great way to reduce the chances of a successful blind phalanx.

  • hm i m not sure that this will help ,they just could have limited max damage in the fights with aliens and pirates..for collector maybe putting new reasarch that will increase met cry and deut prod

    ..

  • ogame developers sitting around the desk making plans for future: guys we made a mistake. discoverer class is too OP cause of pirate fights. people building massive accounts, what do we do?

    smart ogame developer answers: well the damage has already been done and we can undo it. everyone had a same conditions from the very start. let the people now play like it is and we will continue to earn our money from the idiots that play.

    stupid ogame developer: well lets nerf now disco class so that the big accounts that had already obtained 100gazilion points can rape the small accounts like clay pidgeons. everything what we did until now didnt killed this game completely maybe this will. even with 50% nerfed they still going to get pirates every now and then and it will be more ress probably then 2 years 500m points miner account.


    i dont need to point out whose proposal has been takein into consideration do i?
    well done OGAME. im so fucking glad i quit this shit.


    i feel sorry for the Team members and the whole shitstorm the are about to undergo. hold tight bois and girlz

    In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.


    Universe - Janice

  • Disco is still fine early game, and I guess very late game can also be okay.


    I'm gonna make a math TLDR on new expos


    - Most compositions become unprofitable

    - The most profitable compositions(per expedition count, not per time), aka low weapon RIPs and LF-LC in 50% consumption, are still profitable

    - The profitability drops like 10-15 times, so variance grows a lot, and it kinda becomes all about luck. Half a year long breakeven or losing periods would not be uncommon. Running 10% worse than average expectation would make you unprofitable.

    - Expected payoff for expos is gonna be around one year very roughly speaking, depending on activity and universe parameters of course.

    - One year payoff for investment is still good lategame, compared to other options.

    - But PvP is much better if you have skills, specially with likely possibility of being able to choose your targets with merge items.

    - It still can be worth it to run expos, if your fleet is already big enough to solo/ACS any possible target, and your mines have more than a year amortization. It is still a good investment in this case.

    - For most skilled and active players running PvP on general will be the best option. (and how it should be, IMO)


    Early game disco still has massive resource and ship finds, I assume. It was high in 7.0 and broken in 7.1, if it stays as in 7.1 then it is still going to be a prime early game class. Considering that it also has tech speed and planet size bonuses, it is still very good; as is the option to steal most expo debris across the uni if you're the first to pathfinders.


    Overall, decent nerf as I see it, it puts PvP > PvE > idle mining. Many superior way to do it than making it a variance-fest, but not terrible. It is not like the other solutions do not have their own problems.

    I personally would prefer a debris size count or a mechanic that would make it less reliant on luck than it was, but have ROI drop with greater investment. It'd have an obvious loophole in forcing top players to split their fleet in multiple accounts(and maybe run expos in a bunch of different x6 50%'s at once) for max profit, with an option to hand over some account to someone else later and merge them via market / jump to ACS if needed.

    That'd be quite a terrible meta, but at least it would affect only the very minority at the top.

    Alternatives would be something like fleet upkeep introduction, etc, but I don't really trust GF to nail that without crippling bugs, anyway.


    The obvious issue is of course that it is late, and the accounts that got far ahead will now stay ahead much longer.

    On that note, I will retire; others seem a bit closer to each other, so perhaps they can have some fun after the merge.


    P.S.>

    Wonder what the hell is 'building crawlers above the usual limit'. What's the new limit, if there is one? If they nerfed expos to uncap 2-3-day amortization crawlers, that would be hilarious.

    P.P.S.>

    Fleet speed 5% steps with class speed bonuses is gonna make blind returns in high speed unis such a mess...

  • I'll go into more depth at somepoint later on the changes, the classes, and well everything else but I thought I'd offer up a quick hot-take.


    Hot-take:


    The meta has shifted further into the hands of "players with large networks" (see spoiler) with this update. I don't see any viable option for a solo player to be competitive whereas pre-update, as unbalanced/overpowered as the discoverer was, at least it gave solo players half a chance if they played their hand right.



    Like I said though, I'll be posting a more nuanced take on things later.

    ~ Top 10s: 14 (18) + Assist on Worldwide Number 1 + Worldwide Number 2 (suicide) ~ RiPs: 80.962 ~


    ~ The one & only Peppa & SGO for Cygnus/Dorado/Leda/Zibal/Fenrir ~


  • I guess one thing that is a big downer is that a lot of big fleets that were running expos such as BC(or low weapon battleships), no longer can run them profitably and cannot afford to fleetsave. So instead of target rich environment with lots of merge items usage it could devolve into VM play against VM play.

    Perhaps the possibility of LF-LC or RIP expos will keep enough big targets out of VM to create some life in the ecosystem, perhaps bad luck streaks will make everyone want to kill themselves and retire. Time will tell, I guess.


    ^Solo players certainly got hit by the update, but I imagine groups of active legitimate players should still come out on top vs bot networks(even if they push everything via market), provided they can merge over and interfere / gather information for GO's, etc. Not going to look pretty or be fun in any way, but not completely hopeless.


    Big hits should rule the field. However, forced VM due to deuterium consumption will reduce the possibility of legitimate hits a lot. Which leaves illegitimate hits or market scrapping. With merge item in play...yeah, this is ugly.

    As expected, with expeditions being nerfed, the lack of market regulations becomes the next immediate problem.

  • Guys, I have a question to this buff:

    Every 10% raise above 100% costs 20% additional energy!


    So, can I do it infinite many times? Like, can I rise 10000000% crawler bonus for additional 20000000% energy?

    If so, then I've already calculated that by increasing crawler bonus by 10% (which would cost me 10 energy more per each crawler) will be great investment as it will pay for itself in about 1-4 days (depends on planet temp, item boost to energy and eco on planet).