Bot issue and possible solution?

  • First, In Volans the amount of active players is almost >500 players all the time, which is impossible if compare to other servers. Second, there're many people with original name (they use the same name when the account was created) that had outcast status, because they send weak fleet to attack strong players. I understand the second points that it is legal to push in Volans, what I mean is that when the amount of these weak players, who are soooo willingly to push players which is almost thousand times bigger than them, is soo big, then it is obviously strange.

    Those are multis Multis are legal in Volans

    I understand multi are legal in Volans, but when the number of multi are too big it becomes abnormal. Say the other day I just happened to spot a player have a debris of over 150M resource at her planet. Now assume that she is playing multis, how many accounts that needed to create that big knowing that those account are less than 10M points and they lost around 1M points after the attack ?

  • Cavabien :


    Rules 2, 4 & 5 are not applied in Volans.


    2. Multi Account

    4. Bashing

    5. Pushing


    What are you expecting here? We are out of the track. Anything about Bots is leading to a Report the Go of the suspect. They will take care of this issue.

  • First, In Volans the amount of active players is almost >500 players all the time, which is impossible if compare to other servers. Second, there're many people with original name (they use the same name when the account was created) that had outcast status, because they send weak fleet to attack strong players. I understand the second points that it is legal to push in Volans, what I mean is that when the amount of these weak players, who are soooo willingly to push players which is almost thousand times bigger than them, is soo big, then it is obviously strange.

    Those are multis Multis are legal in Volans

    I understand multi are legal in Volans, but when the number of multi are too big it becomes abnormal. Say the other day I just happened to spot a player have a debris of over 150M resource at her planet. Now assume that she is playing multis, how many accounts that needed to create that big knowing that those account are less than 10M points and they lost around 1M points after the attack ?

    Nothing youve said raises any suspicions though. 500 online accounts if there is like 250 actual players in the uni (lines up with what it should be for age of server and other org servers) we assume 75% of the players are offline at anytime that leaves 62 people as the minimum online number of actual players. Thats less then 10 accounts each, and Ima guess your 500 number comes from prime time, so theres likely more along the lines of 100 - 150 people actually online.



    as for 150million debris? Thats next to nothing at all. I can build an account from 0 to that in like a day and a half tops lol.

    Moderator of: Help & Questions, Universe 1 - Uriel; Quasar - Umbra

    SMOD:

    If you have any concerns with my modding feel free to message them

  • Over a year ago I ended up in a Discord chat with a couple of botters. They wanted to use us as bait to take down someone they hated, and I assume then turn on us. In this chat, they told us what bot they used, how they used it, etc, I assume maybe to get some sort of referral bonus. I ended up gathering a list of their account swarm, and submitted it as a ticket, offering to provide any additional details they needed from the discord logs.


    The GO replied 4h later that they were looking into it. 30 minutes after the GO reply, the botters had scrubbed their messages from the chat. I am wary of that coincidence.


    I then reached out directly to GF, and was able to get in touch with someone. With their blessing, I investigated the bot software (I'm a software engineer with an anti-scripting background) and identified several tell tale signs that that a bot was controlling an account. Most of these signals were ones that other players in the universe couldn't notice, and GO's probably can't investigate, but could be detected with software and server access.


    I sent a report of these findings, and have not heard anything back. The bot accounts I submitted have been renamed several times since, I suspect some have changed hands, and a few of them have been banned, but I don't have enough proof that any GO could act on. Overall, I've lost my faith that GF is willing to dedicate the necessary amount of resources to put a stop to them.


    Thank you to (most) GOs for the thankless work you do, and I appreciate that you are doing what you can, but you're hopelessly outmatched and undergunned for the progress players really hope to see.


    And no, I will not be posting that report publicly, nor naming any software. If anyone at GF sees this and is interested in such work, I'm happy to continue if I get a better understanding of how much effort you're able to expend from your side towards this problem.

  • TheJoker : Hunting Bots and Cheaters is waste of time. Don't waste time on things you can not change and enjoy your life! There will ever be Cheaters in "0NLINE-Multiplayer-Games" and you can not stop them. End of story.



    Even if joking, we do not offer free information on scripts which would cause a player to violate the Terms and Conditions.

    - kewlness

  • I think there are definitely bots in Volans, but I had some contact with Kewlness via the ticket system and I know he is doing everything to give them bans.

    The only idea I have is once a bot is proven to be a bot, thus banned without having an option to return, to just give them a ban without vacation mode.

    I know this has been an idea in the past and people have different opinions on it, but I think it will help for people to be more okay with it and more willing to report bots.


    This would make the life of the GO easier, as well as the life of the players that are trying to hunt down the bots.

  • Good to see there's some people like you modding. I appreciate your response. It's definetly better than what I've had from Madoka, sadly.


    Patience it's then, I'll see if I come back to the game, but for now and for my play style it's unplayable sadly :/.


    Thanks!

  • "Definitely better than what I've had from Madoka, sadly." Stay mad over being told that just because an account has activity all day, doesn't send a message when you're attacking them (THIS is a criterion for botting? Call me Deep Blue, then) or it fleetsaves seconds before an attack lands so that the recall doesn't get timed back (Again, call me Deep Blue lmao), it doesn't always mean that they're botting. Btw, you never answered my question about activity of players that you attack, but based on your complaint about 24/7 activity I'm assuming you're attacking players that have activity on their planets 🙄 . But yeah, be satisfied from being told to submit a ticket (Where have I heard that before...discord maybe? 🤔🤔🤔🤔) and to have patience because the VOLUNTEERS in this game seem to treat this game like it's their job more than the people who actually run the game for a living, I guess.


    Flaming aside, yeah, this game's in a rough spot and it's hard to find the will to login because the competition on the uni is extremely suspicious but GOs can only see and do so much. Like TheJoker said, I'm losing my faith in GF to commit to the game. It says a lot about the state of the game when someone who's had a history of bans ingame goes on the forum and admits they used bots to monitor other botting activity and only gets warned for it on the forum with nothing happening to his accounts ingame.

    "No, Peg, it's only a game if you win. If you lose, it's a big stinking waste of time"


    Uriel (Eridanus)

  • Well, I can get mad for a few more reasons at Madoka. Tbh the first interaction I got from that person is of someone that doesn't even want to help, I know it's not a job, but respect should come first from a position of power, how do you handle a customer that's angry because the service you are providing is filled with bots, you handle them like kewlness did.


    Or, you can do like Madoka and just tell them that they need to provide proof that they are 24/7 online, and how can I do that when I have work to do, a life that needs sleep, I could code something that does it, but then I am the cheater.


    It's good to see that in the end at least you agree with what I have said that bots are killing this game and GF can't really do much about it, but I hope they figure it out.

  • Noone ever said you needed to provide proof. But when you openly admit you dont have eyes on them for more then your own active time you can't just wildly claim they are a bot without any additional proof. And I do like to help and help all the time, but again I remember you getting helped twice previously and basically telling off the people who were giving you the correct answers because it wasn't the answer you wanted. Infact from this reply it seems all you want is us to say "Yes theres a problem with bots and they exist" which imo is a duh and does not need to be said and is not an original thought or idea.

    Moderator of: Help & Questions, Universe 1 - Uriel; Quasar - Umbra

    SMOD:

    If you have any concerns with my modding feel free to message them

  • I think there are definitely bots in Volans, but I had some contact with Kewlness via the ticket system and I know he is doing everything to give them bans.

    The only idea I have is once a bot is proven to be a bot, thus banned without having an option to return, to just give them a ban without vacation mode.

    I know this has been an idea in the past and people have different opinions on it, but I think it will help for people to be more okay with it and more willing to report bots.


    This would make the life of the GO easier, as well as the life of the players that are trying to hunt down the bots.

    Guys, I know there is a big discussion here, but what about this great ban without vmode idea? xD


    Nah jokes aside, lets put this misallignment to rest and let everyone enjoy their time here again. Yeah there are bots, but just try to work around it :)

  • I will say this once and only once in this thread:

    If you have a problem with staff members - take it up with their respective administrators.

    For the board - that is Rav3n and Cassandra Vandales .

    For the game - that is kewlness and Danimanza .

    Nobody else on this board will be able to assist you with your staff issues.


    Further, trolling and flaming have no place in this particular board.

    I do not care if a question or observation was asked elsewhere.

    I do not care if that question or observation was rebuffed by everybody in attendance.


    This forum is here to allow for conversation about the game, the board, and the community.

    We are here to help each other and we cannot do that if people are not following the rules.


    This is your friendly warning.

    I prefer to be a nice guy - do not make me show you my moderator hammer.

  • kewlness for one I am not in any way saying you don't care, it is very obvious you do. We all know what goes on in the game, but most of us understand there is only so much you guys can do. I work in compliance, and while I may know something is going on, I cant

    do anything unless I can prove it. You guys are in the same boat and I get that.

  • i dont get it... its just me the one who is see the elephant in the room?


    we are players, customers of a online multiplayer game, which is very competitive and used to require strategy to build up, now the only thing you must have is a bot or script..


    you guys are not taking it seriously enough, talking about how to skip a captcha costs $0.10 so not doing it... reCaptcha which is free and from Google, it's used by CloudFlare known as 1.1.1.1 .... 20% of the internet traffic is delivered by them... and guess what? they use reCaptcha, the biggest firewall and cdn service out there.. if you do a reCaptcha every 30 min of online activity with a timer or something it will kill all the bots out there, and also the population of your servers; because most of them are just bots, no players.. but you are to scare to left only the legit players because it's less revenue for OG so that's the only reason why you allow the bots at your servers..


    do a simple math... if skip a reCaptcha costs $0.10 and you place a reCaptcha every 30 minutes, mean you will show 48 captchas per day.. $4.8 dollars, times 30 days that end up close to $150.. the bots out there cost $10 per month.. wouldn't it become a little bit more expensive and less worth for 90-95% of the bot users?


    idk guys, you are sizing your di*** talking about how long have you been playing, showing off your ranks and status, but unfortunately this game it's not fun anymore as used to be. I guess you are waiting for a big company to release a similar game with the same strategy and lose it all, or a mad hacker who knows how to build a tool like those bots and make it free.


    i dont like to play with disadvantage, i have paid over $1000 since I started years ago on multiple servers, but this is just too much, im getting off the game until something changes here.


    good luck to everyone and i really really wanna see this game rock again, full of nerds doing the mats to calculate the attacks, talking over the chat saying when they are on BECAUSE THEY WHERE ON not because they got a telegram or whatsapp message saying your planet it's under attack..

  • idk guys, you are sizing your di*** talking about how long have you been playing, showing off your ranks and status, but unfortunately this game it's not fun anymore as used to be. I guess you are waiting for a big company to release a similar game with the same strategy and lose it all, or a mad hacker who knows how to build a tool like those bots and make it free.

    In general, I agree with everything you said except this part.

    Nobody is measuring their epeen - there is a forum for combat reports dedicated to that task.


    However, the sad truth is, nobody can fix this problem except Gameforge.

    Thankfully, they are aware of the problem and I understand they are working on the issue.


    Nobody is saying reCaptcha could not be a part of the overall strategy, but we want it to not interfere with anybody's ability to conduct their daily business in-game.

    Imagine trying to send a fleet on a new #1 timed attack because you have blind 'lanxed somebody only to have a reCaptcha show up and throw the attack's timing off.

    I can imagine how angry a player would be for missing an opportunity because of a mandatory system requiring the player to show they are really playing.


    All people are saying is there are some fair points against reCaptcha as a (only) solution.

  • kwelness, appreciate the conversation and tone you have maintained in this conversation. I am curious, and not at all calling you out or discrediting anything you have said. However, When you say GF is working on it, is it one person full time, a group, or sporadic, or a plan to consider sometime in the future, or you are unsure? The reason I am asking, is I don't doubt your sincerity to ban botters, but I am unsure of GF willingness to ban botters. IMO I see botters as contributing huge amounts of DM, as they are willing to take the game to any level to win, vs a player like me(for example) whom hasn't purchased DM in many years. So really, I don't contribute anymore to game (some of that is due to botters) while the "bad guys" do. And as has been mentioned many times, GF is not nearly as popular as it was 13 or 14 years ago when I started playing so there is a reduction in player base/income. Anyways, I am rattleing on. Totally understand it if you or piink are not privy to that information.


    Thanks,
    letssled

    Hey, I know letssled attacks you a lot with his rips.......and I want to crash those rips a lot!


    Words to live by:


    Anyway, the bad news is that inviting/trolling me here on this thread or in the ticket system doesn't change your guilt. I suppose the only thing you have left since you're a lying and manipulative cheater is to try and make me dance, so we did the Congo.


    5044-08c75f27832ac52db5738e76087c67cadf2baeb5.jpg


    Silverwind

  • kwelness, appreciate the conversation and tone you have maintained in this conversation. I am curious, and not at all calling you out or discrediting anything you have said. However, When you say GF is working on it, is it one person full time, a group, or sporadic, or a plan to consider sometime in the future, or you are unsure? The reason I am asking, is I don't doubt your sincerity to ban botters, but I am unsure of GF willingness to ban botters. IMO I see botters as contributing huge amounts of DM, as they are willing to take the game to any level to win, vs a player like me(for example) whom hasn't purchased DM in many years. So really, I don't contribute anymore to game (some of that is due to botters) while the "bad guys" do. And as has been mentioned many times, GF is not nearly as popular as it was 13 or 14 years ago when I started playing so there is a reduction in player base/income. Anyways, I am rattleing on. Totally understand it if you or piink are not privy to that information.


    Thanks,
    letssled

    Unfortunately, all I have been told is Gameforge is aware of the issue and are working on a solution.

    Beyond that, I really have no information as you know how close to the breast Gameforge likes to keep things.


    By the way, most bots I have banned have never spent a single Dark Matter unit.

    So bots are certainly not paying for the servers.

    :wink3:

  • Thanks for sharing that, appreciate your reply. Hope GF moves on this quickly.

    Respectfully,

    letssled

    Hey, I know letssled attacks you a lot with his rips.......and I want to crash those rips a lot!


    Words to live by:


    Anyway, the bad news is that inviting/trolling me here on this thread or in the ticket system doesn't change your guilt. I suppose the only thing you have left since you're a lying and manipulative cheater is to try and make me dance, so we did the Congo.


    5044-08c75f27832ac52db5738e76087c67cadf2baeb5.jpg


    Silverwind