Lifeforms - Feedback thread

  • How do you access the human techs ? The only menu I have is "Lifeform" on left side and I can only build farms/houses etc..

    You have to unlock the Research Centre. I don't remember what level of farms/houses is needed for it, but you can click it and view the tech tree to see the requirements.

  • Thanks for the answers. I have the research lab at level7 currently. It says it unlocks the "tech tree" for humans. But where do I find this ? I must be stupid or it is so obvious I dont see it ? :S

  • Wow

    In hundreds of hours I always thought these icons were just there for polish and did the same thing as the button they are attached to.


    I hope they add in a tutorial or something to have people actually click this thing when the update comes..


    thanks a bunch, have fun

  • There is only one thing I am going to say:


    If lifeform update (even revised one) comes to live universes, it is the end of Ogame.


    There should be seriously 30 or 40 % cap on everything.


    Lifeform researches should not add up as if we have Intergalactic research network because if there is no cap, game gets broken.


    The numbers get crazy in Highscore list. At least I stopped when I figured out the cap issue but people keep going and going


  • I did not test all the features of Lifeforms, but one question that I have:

    You can have boosts for all the ships, but not Deathstar. Wouldn't that create imbalances?

    I have a small fleet of DS, and a nice level of shielding tech. With all these upgrades (and them not being very expensive) you can have for LF and Cruisers it would be possible for those ships to be able to destroy a DS. How can I improve my DS to protect them? And I'm not even talking about BS/BC/Destroyers, cause boosts on those would be even more dangerous for a DS fleet.

  • Been Fine So Far, i would Recomend Lowering the Amount of Building Required for "Houses" And "Farms" since being only able to Que 5 at a time, and the build time being So Low this will cause Major Issues to Established Univereses Where some players have 13+ Planets. 13 x 40 + 13 x 40 = 1000+ Clicks, just to Get your Farms to a Unlockable state where you can start researching some New Tech and buildings.

  • Bermuda

    -It cost me about 3 billions ressources to reach the amount of T3 pops needed to unlock the very last mecha technology. This update seems to be for players with big accounts, it's too hard to test anything with a starting account. A*4 *4 uni with 40M free dark matter is cool and all but players are wasting their DM just building their account, not actually testing what needs to be tested. Consider making players start on a bigger account with multiple planets and moons and mines already. (and maybe make instantly finishing something with DM cost 0 DM)


    Lifeforms

    -A lot of things aren't explained and it's confusing.

    -Clicking on buttons thousands of times is tedious. Please add an option to build successively all levels between "x" and "y" if you enter/choose "y" in the building/technology page. It requires a solution because it's not a thing tied to this new update, you have to face the same problem in the current game with new colonies...The update just made the problem bigger and way more noticeable.

    I'll give you numbers: the last mecha technology requires about 300 levels of lifeform buildings. You have to do that on each planet.

    -I got my species to level 10, I "just" had to spam discovery missions with 28 fleet slots non stop ~10h/day for several days. This is too intensive too. And I don't even know what this thing does lmao

    -the food/pop interaction with ennemy attacks seems useless, pops are rebuilt in a few minutes. Betting on attacks to feed your pops doesn't sound great, they also kill themselves too quickly when they don't have enough food.

    -the "DM versus waiting weeks" with RNG aspect of lifeform technologies in their lab slots is just cancer


    Balance

    -cost reductions shouldn't go above 40%, time reduction for buildings is kind of useless because nanite factory exists, time reduction for technologies can go up to 95% because research time has always been a problem and instantly finishing a technology with DM has never been an acceptable solution, time reduction for ships is useless because of nanite factory. The only thing we want regarding ship construction time is the ability to build multiple units per seconds.

    -It will take time to test Kaelesh stuff about expeditions but we can pretty much already assume it will make expeditions broken again, because Rok'tal and Mecha stuff are really fucking broken right now. And ship upgrades will make pirate 3 and alien 2/3 encounter more profitable or less painful if pirates and aliens don't get the same lifeform bonuses as the player.

    Rok'tal stuff has already been talked about but Mecha stuff is also huge...+0.4% on all stats of a ship per level. Multiplied by the number of planets. Multiplied by technologies level. Add the research bonus from 2 mecha buildings (and their price rises very slowly with each level). Add the bonus from the technology improving player's class bonus. And then there are also 2 techs reducing deuterium consumption, 1 tech improving speed. Think about it for a moment.

    (On another hand, bonuses need to be substancial considering it's really a pain to unlock them. I'd say that they are currently balanced for how awful it is to build lifeform buildings high enough :D )

    Looks like nothing has been properly thought. New techs and buildings break the game but they don't offer anything new, really, just -+x% on this or that, and particular stuff we could want to improve can't be improved. As a fleeter I would be more interested in having max 5% deutierium in debris fields, being able to have more players in ACS attack/defense, building multiple ships per second, improving reapers' recycling %, reducing suffered rapidfire values of a weak ship by 1 or 2, moonbreaks...Rather than having basically *2 stats on ships.

    I'll add that

    >currently ships aren't balanced, some need love, some need nerfs. Yet they almost all have 2 dedicated technologies. Some underused ships' technologies have to compete in the lab slot with technologies for better ships. Makes things worse.

    >ships don't benefit the same way from an overall increase in stats. More attack and speed on cruisers is great because it can allow them to damage deathstar shields and they are already used to rush as fast as possible, meanwhile speed on bombers is more about a QoL improvement and they don't really need more attack. Technologies improving ships shouldn't all be the same "+0.4% on all stats".

    >reapers and pathfinders don't have a dedicated stat. Missed opportunity, as it could make pathfinders have a little bit more use as an offensive tool. Reapers could get too bulky, but this is where you make their technology improve their recycling % instead of weapon/shield/armor (reduction in deut consumption is still welcome).

    >some technologies are kind of useless. Reduced price and build time on alliance depot? Really?

    >deathstars and defenses can't keep up with ships upgrades, and I don't think they needed an indirect nerf.

    Game balance needs fine tuning and seeing what we got instead makes me think this might be the end. Everytime something new arrives people claim this will be the end of OGame, but this time it's on a whole new level.


    -Kaelesh buildings are lame compared to Rok'tal and Mecha buildings. Their buildings unrelated to pop management are: a terraformer, a shipyard, and something for easier and bigger moons. The last one is potentially interesting if it allows players to have moons with a bigger diameter than 8.944km, but once you have your moon it becomes useless. This leads me to my next point:

    -you can virtually have any tech putting aside the fact that it requires DM/luck/time, so choosing a species for a planet is mainly for their exclusive buildings?

    I don't know if you keep the benefits of leveled up technologies that are not currently slotted in your lifeform lab. If it's the case, then rerolling technologies from different species doesn't sound that bad, and it would be better to develop pops from each species before settling for your definitive one...But it would remove the one good thing about this "lifeform update": the ability to really specialize into something in particular.

    -it would be cool if we could see more level upgrades than just from -2 to +12 compared to your current technology/building level. Especially if there is a cap on bonuses and that you can level multiple technologies/buildings per planet to improve those bonuses (so you can plan accordingly)

    -also more detail on bonuses in the stat page, I'd like to see somewhere what precisely contributes to it.

    -I almost forgot that determining the speed of a fleet is now a nightmare, we don't now where numbers are rounded down because of the lack of details in stat page, and even with that you need to spy all planets of the player and hope he didn't build/destroy something that modifies ship speed before sending his fleet.

    Edited once, last by vovo ().

  • Vovo listed most of the things. I don't 100% agree with all of his points, but a good 90% will do and I'll try to not repeat them too much.


    I'm not going to focus on the balance too much, because cost/effect changes are coming to majority of LF features, and speculating before the final numbers doesn't help.

    Will be brief about the current state:

    • Sub 3 minute system flights with BCs in a x4 speed universe is not ideal.
    • Deuterium consumption of "1" is not ideal, specially not with refund in case of recall.
    • 7000+ attack battlecruisers are not ideal, and you can just assume that cruisers will be killing death stars, since one has tech buffs and other doesn't. Reapers and pathfinders, same issue.
    • Black hole reduction being possible at all is not ideal
    • x10+ boost of mining production is not ideal, specially since it stacks with metal packages
    • Performance on small account refreshing page is <1 second, on larger account on same server is 15-30 seconds. That is very very much not ideal.
    • A lot of technologies could benefit from clearer descriptions of what they do, most of all the class bonus technologies. It makes no sense to put something at tier3 that's fairly expensive to unlock, without describing its function.


    But yeah, a lot of current bonuses are getting rebalanced, so it all will need to be reviewed afterwards.


    General design feedback:

    • Food being lootable seems pointless, would work better as energy. As of now it is taking cargo space on plunder, if there was an option to never plunder food everyone would check it. Like vovo said, it is not realistic to feed your population with the looted food.
    • Population regrows so fast, you may as well remove the mechanic entirely and save some performance on population growth calculations. It takes what, less than an hour to go from 0 to your max capacity? May as well not exist, specially with bashing rules globally limiting attacks to 6 per planet.
    • It will be very hard to not over-buff collectors with this update, as there's so many more technologies boosting them, relative to f.e. discoverers. Of course, not talking about combat expeditions; if that's back, that is entirely its own(large) problem. Talking about resource/ship/dm finds, the amount of technologies and their %'s just don't compete with how many different things can boost mining production. Not doing anything playstyle should not easily eclipse active playstyles.
    • I personally don't have a problem with lategame collector overtaking discoverer. Disco gets quick growth fast that caps out relatively early, but that also limits people abusing multiaccounts and/or bots. Still, I'd prefer to see technologies that can, with diminishing return, modify the existing expedition find caps. In other words, that'd allow disco to scale into the lategame, while also not giving too much free resources to low point accounts that can be abused.
    • I am not going to compare balancing of general vs collector, since general's income is coming from what collectors mined and discoverers found. General, given enough activity and skill, will always be best while there's enough active targets of a relevant size; and if there aren't, collector is going to be better; that's just how ogame works. The update is making general more relevant with class bonus increasing technology, as extra deuterium reduction and speed increases can be seen as more valuable than a corresponding mining boosts from collector - provided the general boosts do not get axed hard in the rebalance. Either way, even if we disregard classes, matter of investing into mines vs fleet always depends on the universe and targets available.
    • However, designers should be very careful with overbuffing collectors. If collector becomes the most efficient playstyle per effort by a mile, that does not lead active players to "just" playing collector; it leads to them making a trade network across the community and abusing trade rates as the main source of growth; and their competition is left with a choice of doing the same(mind numbingly boring endeavor), or no longer competing. That just isn't healthy design. Still, considering that pilot profits come from collectors at their base, this problem is at least somewhat self-balancing.
    • Mechas will be very hard to balance in a way that they are not OP, since their unique buildings are just too good. Even if they get significant nerfs, it could still result in mechas not being OP early game but still being OP at some point in the lategame, simply because there's so many technologies to boost.


    Some current issues, all already reported:

    • Not sure what causes it, but something can make a fleet impossible to recall(error message on attempt)
    • Population race bonuses and building bonuses do not apply to moons, as moons do not have a race. Sometimes it makes sense, sometimes it doesn't (e.g. anything to do with fleet). Probably better to just make the moon inherit all modifiers from the planet under it.
    • Buildings that increase ship building speed do not work at all, at the moment.
    • Cost reduction mechanisms have many potential problems, across the board.
    • Technology bonuses have like 1/10 to 1/15 chance of not applying at all. E.g., recyclers having no cargo bonus, research being started without time reduction, fleet recall deuterium refund not applying at all, etc.
    • Obvious difficulties in timeback hits due to all the ship speed modifiers, suggested to have lanx display the modifier %, or make a sum-of-all technologies visible on espionage reports.
    • Large concerns about third party tools compatibility / necessary data being exposed in oGame API. We do love our simulators, calculators and antigame.


    Overall the communication is the best I've ever seen it at. Some of the issues have been resolved with beta11, such as deuterium consumption reduction technologies not working, planet updates breaking when population gets over cap, caps on teches being introduced(although %'s need rebalancing), etc.


    There will be a more detailed feedback once we have the next round of numbers.

  • Ah, yeah, forgot to mention a few things.

    There's bugs right know where shipyards and research proceed to work while in vacancy mode.

  • Few comments...


    TECH TREE IS POINTLESS

    Almost all of tech bonuses apply on *all* planets/ships


    Why would you then bother with a custom tech tree? With 14 planets being the norm for a developed account, you can simply split your planets and have 3-4 of the same race, pump their techs on their planet to reach the maximum (which will be capped, so 3-4 planets should be enough for this maximum).


    The whole idea of having separate tech trees per planet becomes pointless.


    It also makes absolutely no sense that each planet develops the identical technologies multiple times. Research should be on empire level. This is like, Elon Musk makes colony on Mars, and now they need to research the wheel again because... it's a new planet and what humanity already discovered does not apply.



    PRODUCTION BONUSES ARE INSANE

    Every race has production bonus techs that apply on all planets. Some even for the same resources, so they will overlap. When all of these bonuses are combined, production will go to the extreme levels. 10B point accounts will become the new norm.



    SHIP BONUSES ARE INSANE

    Same as for production, but now for ships.



    THE WHOLE UPDATE IS OP

    If the concept is not given more thought and redesigned, it will mess up the balance of the whole game (even when they cap the bonuses).



    THE WHOLE UPDATE IS VERY HARD TO UNDERSTAND

    It will not bring more people to the game, it will do quite the contrary. Imagine a newbie being thrown into V9? They would quit after a day.

  • the bonuses in the tech trees stack. So you build a tech that increases your res production by 0.4%, across 10 planets that’s 4% total per planet for just one left of the tech on each of the planets

  • and now you can boost it to infinity, but once they cap it, likely just a few planets will be enough to reach the maximum


    if they do not cap it, well then, the game is completely screwed

  • so whats the cost to get it to that point of infinite

  • All constructions can not be done, it stops and new ones on quote won't start.


    Can you cancel the queue and start it again? I seem to recall someone giving that advice, sometimes it restarts again.


    Also, it was said, that if you insta finish with something in queue. usually that's how it breaks.

  • why you get banned lol? report a bug and get banned or wtf?