Pay to "Win" Ogame - Yin - New Universe

  • You're still suggesting that ress packs or DM need to be changed but the problem lies much deeper than that. In many other "p2w" games - I'll use Genshin Impact as an example - whales don't receive the amount of backlash that they do in ogame and they certainly don't "ruin" the game.


    Take a step back and think of the reason for this, and you'll be able to come up with suggestions that actually have a chance of being considered.

  • Why not just ditch Pay2Win altogether, and make it Pay2Play.


    I mean, if that would only be like $5/month subscription, there're a lot of us fans and new and old players who would come back to Ogame, which in turn would increase the total number of players across all countries and servers, make it to 50-100k players, and you got a nice half a mil $$$ cashflow for the servers, employees and development.


    Most common sense genuine players oppose P2W, but as a loyal fan, a player would feel inclined to subscribe and contribute to a favorite game if it was simply Pay2Play; with some possible cosmetic perks and rewards etc (plenty reward ideas possible).


    Pay2Win is not sustainable. Pay2Play could be.

  • Pay2Win is not sustainable. Pay2Play could be.

    People grow up, make families, friends, work, etc. I'm sure not a large percentage of old players will come back just for this.


    And so you will ban the game for new players (no one will pay 5$ monthly subscription for a complicated game where you will lose your entire fleet in the first month, when there are a lot of free games in the world, more fun and not just a browser game based on click after click actions).

  • Pay2Win is not sustainable. Pay2Play could be.

    People grow up, make families, friends, work, etc. I'm sure not a large percentage of old players will come back just for this.


    And so you will ban the game for new players (no one will pay 5$ monthly subscription for a complicated game where you will lose your entire fleet in the first month, when there are a lot of free games in the world, more fun and not just a browser game based on click after click actions).

    I disagree. There many games where players pay for cosmetics or premium (dota+) without hesitation. The argument about fleets and click, click action, I understand but this stems from stagnation of gameplay. There are ways to make the gameplay less punishable to players, but again, gf likes easy profit.

  • We as a community need to stop complaining about whales/metal packs/p2w as that is clearly futile. Instead, we need to start putting our heads together to think of what can be done to make the game more fair and balanced regardless of their existence.


    Sooner we can do this, the more hope we have of fixing the currently broken state of the game.

    You can't.


    As i said elsewhere, GF is not in the business of entertaining people. They do not care for a fair and balanced game. That is not their problem. Their problem is finding a way to continue to milk whales. The only way to have a fair and balanced game, in any game, is to remove all P2W options and that goes back to the officers. That is very simple to understand and the ones who understood it, the majority of the ogamers, have already done the sole logical thing they could do: They left the game.


    Besides, they don't read the boards. GF has two kind of players: the ones who P2W and earn GF money and the ones who do not pay but provide entertainment for the paying players; As targets, as trade partners, by their comments on the HoF boards for the few who still care. The day GF finds a way to program an AI to poorly play the game and post believable comments on the boards there will not be free players anymore.


    Some game companies are made by passionate people who love to make fun games to entertain their public. They also want to earn a living but they love gaming before all. GameForge is not one of them.

    Uni 3 and 1. Retired.

  • You nailed it. Well said.

  • Sounds fun in your eyes, but in reality this can never work.

    You completely underestimate how much it takes to get 50-100k players on a subscription based videogame. There's only a handful of games out there that work with that model and reach that player count.
    Ogame across the board doesn't even have 50k players, let alone that they'd have to pay a sub.

    And believe me, ogame is not going to be one of those. The game doesn't really need any updates, so no justification for a sub model. The game is a browser game, and one based on nostalgia. Sub based games like this aren't going to attract any new players, and if you don't attract new players the game is doomed to die, as players will quit for various reasons.

    Easily 90% of this games population plays it because it's free to play, most likely only top 50 pays for the game for more than 20 bucks, if that. And the vast majority of those will quit after 3 months of a uni.

    This game's model follows the mobile game market of the 80/20 rule. Meaning 20% of players account for 80% of the income, and 20% of those players for 80% of that income and so on.
    You can't make this game run on cosmetics, there's not enough players and not enough people willing to pay for it.

    I know most of you approach this from a player perspective, I get that. But the reality is, this game is a business, and businesses are supposed to make money. Let's be real here, nobody expected ogame to be here for 20 years, and the only reason it is still here is because of the atrocious business model.

    The Fiercest serpent may be overcome by a swarm of ants.


    - Yamamoto Isoroku

  • "The game doesn't really need any updates, so no justification for a sub model. The game is a browser game, and one based on nostalgia. "


    You lost me there. A game without updates is a dead game.


    I personally returned after 3 year break because of lifeforms update, otherwise I don't think I would be here.

  • The few games that are able to run subscription based models are reliant on it to keep their updates rolling out. They have entire design teams, art teams, etc working full time. And in order to support such costs they need consistent income.

    I am talking mainly about mmorpgs here, who have weekly content updates.

    Ogame has had what, 3 content updates the last 20 years? There's been expeditions, class introduction and lifeforms. Before that we've had some minor updates like a new ship or the IPM system.


    I'll take runescape as an example, which has also been running for about 25 years, and runs on a subscription based model (at least that was its only form of income the first 15 years). It has had weekly content updates since. I'm talking new quests, new area's, new items, new monsters to fight, new skills, you name it.

    The Fiercest serpent may be overcome by a swarm of ants.


    - Yamamoto Isoroku

  • The few games that are able to run subscription based models are reliant on it to keep their updates rolling out. They have entire design teams, art teams, etc working full time. And in order to support such costs they need consistent income.

    I agree that a subscription model alone is not sufficient. It would either exist as a supplement to a main one or had very robust supplementary source of incomes.

    I am talking mainly about mmorpgs here, who have weekly content updates.

    When I speak of updates in the context of ogame, I think more of 3-6 month content updates plus balance patches.

    Ogame has had what, 3 content updates the last 20 years? There's been expeditions, class introduction and lifeforms. Before that we've had some minor updates like a new ship or the IPM system.

    Each of these updates were driven by increasing profits at the cost of gameplay and fairness.


    It is very difficult to discuss the profitability without knowing gf balance sheet, but there is always market for space game and while ogame can be considered a niche game, it is by its own choice. There are two main flaws in ogame's design that will always make it bleed players.

    - losing fleet

    - real time action (which disrupts personal life)


    Once they fix that and introduce sustainable model, they can think bigger. (Steam, paid expansions, cosmetics).


    But we both know this will not happen, so in the end our discussions here are a moot point.

  • Quote

    I agree that a subscription model alone is not sufficient. It would either exist as a supplement to a main one or had very robust supplementary source of incomes.

    Ogame already has a supplement subscription fee, that's in officers and boosters. Arguably the convenient side in the commander which was the first thing coming into the game as pay to win.


    Quote

    It is very difficult to discuss the profitability without knowing gf balance sheet, but there is always market for space game and while ogame can be considered a niche game, it is by its own choice. There are two main flaws in ogame's design that will always make it bleed players.

    - losing fleet

    - real time action (which disrupts personal life)


    Once they fix that and introduce sustainable model, they can think bigger. (Steam, paid expansions, cosmetics).

    I have to strongly disagree. Ogame is a niche game not by its own choice. It is niche because it was created with resources available at the time for devices available en masse, which was browsers. At this point in time it's a niche genre because the majority of gamers have access to far better equipment, a 300 dollar phone can run game applications that look far more impressive than a browser game can make.

    Your suggestion of "issues to fix" is taking 2 of the core elements of ogame and turn it into something else. But then you create a whole new game, not ogame. You're suggesting making a different game which will be more popular.

    The Fiercest serpent may be overcome by a swarm of ants.


    - Yamamoto Isoroku

  • Ogame already has a supplement subscription fee, that's in officers and boosters. Arguably the convenient side in the commander which was the first thing coming into the game as pay to win.

    p2w mechanics aren't equal. Officers and boosters are mild p2w while metal packs are the hard p2w and this is what makes the game a joke. It take away the joy of 'racing' to the top when others can simply buy resources and get millions of points on the first day. It makes the point of playing the game moot, at least from a competitive point of view.


    So as long as buying resources is in game, it will not be taken seriously.



    I have to strongly disagree. Ogame is a niche game not by its own choice. It is niche because it was created with resources available at the time for devices available en masse, which was browsers. At this point in time it's a niche genre because the majority of gamers have access to far better equipment, a 300 dollar phone can run game applications that look far more impressive than a browser game can make.

    Who stops them from switching to steam?


    Your suggestion of "issues to fix" is taking 2 of the core elements of ogame and turn it into something else. But then you create a whole new game, not ogame. You're suggesting making a different game which will be more popular.

    Core or not these two elements are double edge sword and in the long run it is harmful. It's like Diablo/Path of Exile but only with hardcore mode. It is fun until you die. Same here. It is fun until you get crashed. You can get back on your feet sure, but after you lose your moon several times in a row, you give up and leave.


    As for real time action; I spoke to many people who got in serious argument with their wives about ogame. It is not healthy for anyone to have to choose between going to bed with their wives or sending fs. You chose the former, you lose your fleet. You choose the latter, you are an idiot.


    So, core or not, these mechanics are harmful, and there is nothing that would change my mind about it.

    Edited once, last by magiks87 ().

  • Its interesting how on this 4 pages of this thread there is not a single post from some player who acctually paying that insane amounts of money for the game..

    They dont even bother about this..they dont read forum,they dont care about anything in the world as long they are in top 5 of uni...


    I got triggered today when i saw one battle report from Wurren when i realised that i can loose everyting i build for 3 months now from some guy who paid for hes fleet...

    And im also playing at Yin..but you guys already know whats going on in here..

    Im gonna quit OGame anytime soon..there is no point of playin against those players..


    Peace and out :zombiewalk:


  • they don't care about communities, they care about themselves and that's it. and yes... you work hard for 3 months, day by day, expeditions, raids over and over, just to become someone's puppy with daddy's money or God knows how they did it. Because decent people who worked hard for their money don't spend huge amounts on a game like this. But who cares? They certainly don't. GameForce only pursues profit. And losers (me, you and many others) spend their time trying their best for nothing.

  • Quote

    As for real time action; I spoke to many people who got in serious argument with their wives about ogame. It is not healthy for anyone to have to choose between going to bed with their wives or sending fs. You chose the former, you lose your fleet. You choose the latter, you are an idiot.




    nah bro that statement is whack



    its called a me time or a hobby, if i get into argument with my wife over the time i chose to spend indulging in my hobbies and activities then she can pack her bags