Vega 2.0

    With the new and much more full Vega, with players from all kinds of universes, the next natural step is to try and balance the uni.

    Two of the big settings that stick out is no 'deut in to the debris' and '2x peaceful speed' (transporting).

    Suggestion 1:
    Change peaceful speed from 2x to 4x (transporting)
    We have tried to figure out what the downsides are to this, but really haven't found any. We hope everyone can see the benefit from this.


    Suggestion 2:
    Change the 'no deuterium in to debris field' to ' deuterium in to debris field' AND change '70% debris in to debris field' to '60% debris in to debris field.

    Now we understand that deut in to debris can't just be implemented without any sacrifice, so we've been debating back and forth what would be a reasonable change that doesn't fuck over any one kind of player.

    The idea being that deuterium in to debris field will balance the universe out in many ways. It will benefit anyone doing any sorts of attack obviously and as such we feel dropping debris in to debris field from 70 to 60% will balance that out.
    We do not want to make this uni a fleeter uni at all, but we also feel that this uni, with all these new players, could benefit from a slightly more balanced setup.
    We also discussed lowering it to 50% instead of 60% but we felt like many may have chosen this uni because of the 70% debris which sticks out from the 50% many other universes have - and we didnt want to mess too much with that.

    I have no experience putting these suggestions forward and I don't know if Im even doing it right, but we would like for anyone in this uni to voice their opinion on the matter first before we put forward an actual poll.

    - and ofcourse if these settings aren't allowed to be changed according to some rule, then please do let us know as soon as possible so we can come up with different suggestions to balance the uni.

    Thank you for reading and Im looking forward to play in a much more full and chill universe :)
    Hope you leave a comment below with your thoughts.

    Old school gamer

    Playing devils advocate here


    1. Effects FS times as well as buffs the already OP disco class with faster expos


    2. seems reasonable though I dont see the miners passing it as it would make BM/Des/Reaper attacks better as well as make the sats/crawlers more of a target


    Id likley vote no on 1 and yes on 2 but I want to see others input first

    tbh this should've been a server change via merge, instead we'll (hopefully) get to vote on it


    big +1

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    Vreme će proći pa moći će svi da vide

    Kako stojimo ponosni, večni ko piramide

    I think these are good suggestions that should be put up to a vote, however:


    1. This affects fleetsave/save system construction a lot. In 2x, you can get 17-18 hours from deploy one way at 10% w/o general, and 12 hours at 15% (and 35 hours at 5%) with general. This means you can just make a closed system and put two planets in it, and be basically fine for any length of FS you might want (especially with recalls). But in 4x, you're now getting ~9 hours from 10% one way, which might not be long enough for people, especially if they don't recall, and also you entirely lose the 12 hour save option. Slightly less important but more noticeable, the longest fleetsave with recall in system drops from ~70 hours (recall right before landing for 5%) to ~35, which is a huge drop, half that if you're not general.


    2. 60% Deut to DF is basically ~70% without deut to DF -- why make this change at all? It seems to do very little. It wouldn't really benefit anyone here, except insofar as it increases wreckfield slightly.

    As experienced miner, I completely disagree with option 1 and I will pretend like it's not even there and if somehow passes to the official vote I will vote against it.


    Regarding the second option even tho I'm against lowering DF%, if this proposition - x4 peaceful fleet, Deut to DF, and -10% on DF - goes to the official vote, I will support it. I feel everyone gets something and that balances itself. I hope other miners will come to their senses and realize that turning Deut to DF will not harm any miner if he sticks to the cargo-only fleet like God wanted us to do. Also, anyone who thinks that someone will bash their 500 crawlers for deut, he/she is stupid and should stop playing the game and save us all some time.


    +1 on the suggestion, I hope we don't piss the all-mighty chaosk with an early suggestion, because the merge is not officially over.

    Personally, as someone who has been in vega a while now, I have no desire to see fleet speeds changed. I do find it a touch silly given we are in the middle of a merge which offered unis with faster fleet speeds for exodus unis to pick from this is a subject for a long established x2 uni.


    Deut to df i’m ambivalent to, doesn’t affect miners who are sensible about things, i’d go with whatever the majority want.

    Deut in DF is a must at this stage, if it would come with lower DF %, so be it.. but come on :)

    Im happy that there's points of views I have not considered.
    As someone coming from a 5x uni (with 8x peaceful) I didnt consider fleetsave an issue xD
    Obviously Im still interested in 4x peaceful but I understand if many accounts are set up in a certain way where fleetsaving in 4x would be complicated.
    Im thinking we still put it to a vote and let the majority decide? but Id totally understand if no was an option. We could settle for 3x peaceful just to meet in the middle, but Im just brainstorming here.

    We are obviously mostly interested in deut to DF and will probably allow most changes the majority would want, for that to go through.
    With the fleets flying around, it seems absurd not to have deut to DF. Theres only so much deut to go around and it will bottleneck the uni to not have a natural flow of deut. (my personal point of view)
    We came to the conclusion that actual miners will have majority of their fleet being transporters and is as such not affected by the deut to debris, but understand that some may not have that exact setup and not have thought it all the way through potentially, but thats why we have a thread like this.


    Quote from Astral_Codex

    2. 60% Deut to DF is basically ~70% without deut to DF -- why make this change at all? It seems to do very little. It wouldn't really benefit anyone here, except insofar as it increases wreckfield slightly.

    it would make the flow of the uni much smoother. Say top 1 crashes top 3 and theres ... I cant even imagine the numbers... amount of debris, but no deut there. That means he in theory should buy all the deut in the universe to balance that out (or go via the merchant ofc.) - my suggestion simply makes raiding smoother and more natural. You dont have to panic buy all deut you can get your hands on just because you made a hit.
    You also dont have to be super discouraged from sending hits that costs a lot of deut (which it does in this uni).
    Raiding is extremely expensive in deut even with deut to debris, but with deut to debris you still give raiders enough hope to still be raiding.

    In my very biased opinion, an essential part of OGame is raiding, and to me it seems the lack of deut to debris combined with the high deut cost of flying in this uni, will make raiding extremely painful - if not almost impossible.

    Again just a reminder. We're just sharing views here and no one person is right, but I think its important to share ones views so we can come up with potential changes that the majority of players can live with.

    Old school gamer

    Just to clarify, you are Ripper, the current rank 1 in Vega?


    Anyhow, i do think, Vega is fine as it is after thinking about it. You joined Vega, accept the settings you choose for.

    You could have joined any other server but picked Vega.

    Feels like someone is moving into my appartment and now wants to change the way we live to his standards.

    I would totally welcome 4x peaceful to run faster expos, but would rather keep 70%DF than lower ratio with deut. People are already extremely aggressive with fleet launches here because of 2x war.

    Quote from Krumme

    With the fleets flying around, it seems absurd not to have deut to DF. Theres only so much deut to go around and it will bottleneck the uni to not have a natural flow of deut. (my personal point of view)

    I mean, that's just not how modern OGame works. There's no bottleneck on any resource if you're willing to merchant for it, and every universe will have people who are willing to merch (especially given how cheap it is relative to say, officers or fleet slot items). Merchant is how most of the crystal enters the universe anyways, what's wrong with having a bit more deut enter the universe via merchant, and a bit less crystal?


    Quote from Krumme
    Quote from Astral_Codex

    2. 60% Deut to DF is basically ~70% without deut to DF -- why make this change at all? It seems to do very little. It wouldn't really benefit anyone here, except insofar as it increases wreckfield slightly.

    it would make the flow of the uni much smoother. Say top 1 crashes top 3 and theres ... I cant even imagine the numbers... amount of debris, but no deut there. That means he in theory should buy all the deut in the universe to balance that out (or go via the merchant ofc.) - my suggestion simply makes raiding smoother and more natural. You dont have to panic buy all deut you can get your hands on just because you made a hit.
    You also dont have to be super discouraged from sending hits that costs a lot of deut (which it does in this uni).
    Raiding is extremely expensive in deut even with deut to debris, but with deut to debris you still give raiders enough hope to still be raiding.

    Merchant is literally 3.5k DM (2k DM on discount); it's basically not a real cost at this point. That's on average less than 120 expeditions worth of DM, and like 13 expeditions average during the 9x event. And if you're discoverer, you can get 3 2 1 merchant every week just from expos anyways, so it's not even that much dm. Even if you don't do expeditions and can't afford to spend even 2k DM (even after you've made a big hit), surely you have a friend who can merch for you (for example, your friend with 17 trillion fleet?).


    I'm genuinely confused about why you guys think changing to 60% and deut to DF is worth fighting for, because, again, it barely affects profitability either way. I would've expected that you'd be more interested in keeping 4x peaceful, because that actually provides a bunch of up sides, not just expedition -- gather resources and trades are way faster, for example, as are colony ships.

    Quote from Shinjite

    Just to clarify, you are Ripper, the current rank 1 in Vega?


    Anyhow, i do think, Vega is fine as it is after thinking about it. You joined Vega, accept the settings you choose for.

    You could have joined any other server but picked Vega.

    Feels like someone is moving into my appartment and now wants to change the way we live to his standards.

    He's clearly not Ripper. Do you expect the current rank one, who packed in 17 Trillion fleet, to complain about not being able to afford merchant? In case he is, then it'd be mighty hypocritical of him to spend thousands on metal packs and then complain about having to spend dime on merchanting.


    I do agree that changes to fleet speed are huge, since people choose universes in large part due to fleet speed. If you've built your account to take advantage of long in-system deploys, then doubling peaceful speed is a big change. I think changes to things like DF are more understandable, since they're more about profitability/fleet composition and less about how OGame fits into your life. (And in this merge, there are no options for DF% after you decide on fleet speed anyways.)


    As you say, it's a bit weird that he wants higher fleet speed after coming to Vega, given this merge did include an option for him to keep 5x (Thuban) that he turned down.

    Quote from Astral_Codex

    I'm genuinely confused about why you guys think changing to 60% and deut to DF is worth fighting for, because, again, it barely affects profitability either way.

    I trust your math, so you are saying we should bundle up x4 peaceful and Deut to DF and leave lowering DF% out ?

    Also benefits you listed of the x4 peaceful fleet don't mean anything, except buffing the already BROKEN game feature which is expo. And only disco/collectors are going to benefit from it. Every general class player will get f**ked like every time we vote for a uni spec change.

    Quote from Shinjite

    Anyhow, i do think, Vega is fine as it is after thinking about it. You joined Vega, accept the settings you choose for.

    You could have joined any other server but picked Vega.

    Feels like someone is moving into my appartment and now wants to change the way we live to his standards.

    This is golden. +1

    I am interested in the idea of 4x peaceful fleet speed. But also agree that the affect on FS could be very problematic... unless, along with the 4x buff on peaceful missions, a 5% lower fleet speed would be included to offset this.

    The other issue of Deut to DF with 60 instead of 70% seems ok.

    Its not that weird. Calling it 'higher' fleet speed is not really correct, they arent advocating for all fleet speeds to go up. They just dont want even fleet speed between war and peaceful.


    I dont really get the sentiment of people being offended that someone moved in and wants to change the way they play. A whole bunch of servers scaled down from 8x (et al) peaceful to 2x in the merge. So all of the ways we formatted our planets for fs on those settings are also ruined. Thuban was 5x peaceful which is an even worse ratio since Krumme came from vela which was 8x. I dont think its unreasonable to vote to meet in the middle.

    Hello,


    Just a quick message to confirm that we've seen your topic and are watching the discussions.

    As already mentioned, for the time being no polls can take place before the end of the merger on Monday.

    We will then see if you still wish to propose these 3 changes or if you wish to propose something else, depending on the discussions you're having.


    Have a nice day !

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