Feedback on the Updated Rule Clarifications

    Quote from Tirnoch
    Quote from Apostle

    I actually laughed hard on this, you made a good point! They (=who are they?) rather kill the spirit of the game over a feature that they (= who are they?) added to make money when that feature is the source of the problem.

    Once you figured out the answers to the questions I added into the quote above, you'll realize what the fundamental flaw in your logic is.

    From your own logic on previous posts, would making packs give the same amount to everyone not be more fair than the current system?

    I'm not sure how the calculation should be done, we've had suggestions of making it similar to the disco finds (based on highscores) or some type of average based on ECO/production from top 10 or top 20 in the server?


    And with 3:2:1 being enforced, it would also make sense to balance metal/crystal/deut packs to give the same MSU/DSU value for the same amount of DM

    Quote from johocknut
    Quote from Apostle
    Quote from Tirnoch
    Quote from Apostle

    I actually laughed hard on this, you made a good point! They (=who are they?) rather kill the spirit of the game over a feature that they (= who are they?) added to make money when that feature is the source of the problem.

    Once you figured out the answers to the questions I added into the quote above, you'll realize what the fundamental flaw in your logic is.

    Sorry I didn't know you don't know who: GameForge

    Do you think this problem would exist if they didn't add this feature? If they simply factor in as WHAT IF a few players happens to have a lot of money to blows it into the game, would it break? If yes then maybe they shouldn't add that "feature". Gameforge created a runaway train, and as a result non-paying players suffers by nerfing the parts of the game that doesn't involve paying while the paying players just get stronger. It should be the other way around, add something to the non-paying players something to make the problem.

    For the people who had the money, why they wouldn't exploit this method that Gameforge created?

    I mean this is just GF M.O. though. They don't fix problems until long after they're a problem...pirate expos weren't nerfed for over a year, then packages came. At the time they weren't that bad since without lifeforms you're lucky to get more than 3b a pack at the high end. Lifeforms changed that massively. Turkish Lira DM took what, 9 months to close that loop hole? While I agree fixed trade rates sucks and punishes most players, it does need to happen unfortunately. Its a band-aid fix like every other fix but unless they find a way to reign in packs while maintaining profit it'll have to be that way.

    You forget only on org!Lira is banned only on org, trade rates are fixed only on org,did i miss something?
    All these problems were repeatedly reported and the action took months before was too late.You all sound smart, but generally the people that ask for changes are first that exploited it.

    Why muppets didn't ask for changes when they massively pulled each other during lira period?When l42 started it , change came in or Tizoc.I mean be less obvious with your intentions.

    Lurking from the shadows

    Quote from Y0m1

    From your own logic on previous posts, would making packs give the same amount to everyone not be more fair than the current system?

    I'm not sure how the calculation should be done, we've had suggestions of making it similar to the disco finds (based on highscores) or some type of average based on ECO/production from top 10 or top 20 in the server?


    And with 3:2:1 being enforced, it would also make sense to balance metal/crystal/deut packs to give the same MSU/DSU value for the same amount of DM


    That would work - That would encourage new players to join older uni because otherwise why join when players are years ahead?

    Average from the top 10 eco would be the baseline of the packs on M/C/D for the universe (this would eliminate 99% of the pulling and GF would get all the benefit) - The players who have their production exceeded the average of the to 10 will be getting based on their own eco.

    Not true, when the closed the loop hole it became impossible to move communities. If you had an account in .de you could only graveyard within that community. So you had to have a Turkish IP, a lobby tied to ogame.tk and use a Turkish based credit card I believe. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on that.


    These problems were brought up over and over again, I agree. It was even brought up by people within muppets. Kinda like the way marketplace was used and abused by the same people who also called for it to be dismantled.

    The genie is out of the bottle, and you can't put it back in.

    There are probably several methods GF could implement to address* the issue with packs, such as allowing an alternative method(s) to help non-paying players earn more DM to be competitive. There was a laughable moment long ago when the COMA said that players could find DM on expos and to do more expos.

    However, GF could change the amount of DM found on expos if they wanted to and make the juice worth the squeeze. I don't think GF has ever changed those formulas since it was introduced. They could also add additional items that could be found on expos like free relos, packs, high-dollar value platinum items, etc. This might incentivize more players to be active if they knew they had an opportunity to get valuable items instead of the low-tier items. They could also reintroduce marketing/advertising methods, where players earned DM by watching ads and taking surveys. They could add substantial DM to the tasks/rewards.

    They could also incentivize more active players by offering substantial rewards for staying out of v-mode instead of fostering a v-mode play style that we have now. The longer you stay out of v-mode, the greater the rewards at the end of each month and possibly even an annual bonus at the end of the year.

    They could also address the disparity between whales and non-whales by restructuring how RIPs function and how MDs are accomplished, removing the instant JG for mobile moons, changing the noob protection formulas, etc. There should be more protections for F2P versus P2W, and I say that as someone who has packed a considerable amount. Other than personal restraint, there isn't much to prevent P2W players from becoming a tyrannical griefer who finds joy in bashing players into oblivion and forcing them out of the game.

    *I don't think you can fix the issue without rebooting the whole system and starting from scratch. And if they did that, all the players who invested (lol) money and/or time in this game would then leave, further compounding the issue of an ever-shrinking player base. If you remove the function now, you'll just cement the whales who are already in those positions, and it would inhibit other players from being able to compete with them other than just playing to survive. And if GF loses its cash cow...the lights eventually get turned off. Game Forge doesn't do a good job of marketing this game and attracting new players. The app was a joke. The devs are horrible at addressing bugs and issues, which frustrates and drives away new players (and old ones). Fixes are Band-Aids at best. Most of the player base are players that have been playing for years, some of them bounce from one new uni to the next while others have given up on new unis and settled into one of the unis that most likely will always be a target uni.

    Doesn't matter anyway,rules were enforced because of few people that abused it.We should mention how few people abused the system during expos, but unfortunately we never seen the same response from GA team during that period like now. Honestly i still think its not fair system for everyone, because those on top are anyway too far ahead,most of them used any advantages they could to be there,lira, expo , packages,low trades. Suddenly for us that don't wanna be dm abusers it looks like we need too,otherwise we stay behind.

    And the matter it is that we as customers can't even have single voice in which decisions will be made or at least to have some idea of it, until its too late.

    Lurking from the shadows

    Quote from Apostle
    Quote from Tirnoch
    Quote from Apostle

    I actually laughed hard on this, you made a good point! They (=who are they?) rather kill the spirit of the game over a feature that they (= who are they?) added to make money when that feature is the source of the problem.

    Once you figured out the answers to the questions I added into the quote above, you'll realize what the fundamental flaw in your logic is.

    Sorry I didn't know you don't know who: GameForge

    I think he means the :censored: By King Rabbit accountants

    Quote from Apostle
    Quote from Tirnoch
    Quote from Apostle

    I actually laughed hard on this, you made a good point! They (=who are they?) rather kill the spirit of the game over a feature that they (= who are they?) added to make money when that feature is the source of the problem.

    Once you figured out the answers to the questions I added into the quote above, you'll realize what the fundamental flaw in your logic is.

    Sorry I didn't know you don't know who: GameForge

    Do you think this problem would exist if they didn't add this feature? If they simply factor in as WHAT IF a few players happens to have a lot of money to blows it into the game, would it break? If yes then maybe they shouldn't add that "feature". Gameforge created a runaway train, and as a result non-paying players suffers by nerfing the parts of the game that doesn't involve paying while the paying players just get stronger. It should be the other way around, add something to the non-paying players something to make the problem.

    For the people who had the money, why they wouldn't exploit this method that Gameforge created?

    No worries — I do know who GameForge is 🙂 But the point of my questions was to highlight that the "they" you're referring to actually points to two completely separate groups.


    One “they” is the Game Team (volunteers) and the Community Manager, who worked on this rule change and enforced fixed trade rates.

    The other “they” is the Gameforge monetization/product team — the people who introduced features like metal packs, which you correctly identified as a major contributor to trade abuse.


    The two groups don’t overlap, and the people trying to close these loopholes with rules (the Game Team) aren’t the same people who added the monetization mechanics that enabled the abuse in the first place.


    So blaming “GameForge” as a single unified entity — for both creating the problem and then “killing the spirit of the game” with the fix — misses how the internal structure actually works. It also explains why some things (like rules) can be changed, while others (like monetization models) can’t, at least not from within the Game Team.


    And here’s the key:

    Metal packs didn’t create the problem — they just made it easier, faster, and more scalable.


    Trade abuse has existed long before metal packs.

    People used to buy accounts, scrap the fleet, and then trade the resulting resources to their main accounts using manipulated rates. Others funneled daily production from a network of alt accounts into their mains the same way — exploiting the gap between 2:1:1 and 3:2:1 just like they do today.


    The method hasn’t changed. Only the source of the resources has.

    Metal packs simply turbocharged the scale and frequency of abuse.


    That’s why the rule change targets the mechanism of trade manipulation itself — because that’s the part the Game Team actually has control over. They can’t touch monetization or premium features, but they can close the loopholes that let those systems be abused.

    2rabnrop.png

    Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.


    Developer of AntiGameReborn - Link to the AGR Discord

    As a former Ogame player, I've always favored the 3:2:1 ratio. What I don't agree with is the fact that players aren't allowed to trade anything. Marketplace needs to return. As you know, there aren't as many crowded and competitive servers as there used to be. Playing in 100-person universes is no fun. The imbalance between classes is rampant. My words to players playing with Dark Matter, however, are that there should be limits to what can be done with Dark Matter. For example, absurdities like millions of fleets suddenly appearing on a planet at the last second need to end.

    why is it so hard to make rules that are valid from the time posted?

    we see many people leaving vmode again in the last 5 days to abuse the trade rates


    how is that

    a) desired

    b) fair

    c) not prevented?

    to abuse trade rates that are perfectly legal? You're complaining about a problem that doesn't exist except in your own head.


    How is it fair to change the rules on a random day? What if someone was in the middle of a trade when the rules took effect?

    Quote from johocknut

    How is it fair to change the rules on a random day? What if someone was in the middle of a trade when the rules took effect?

    Then you provide them with the option to perform the trade with the rules applied they started? As it is in many states in the western hemisphere you are judged by the laws (= rules) at the time of the crime commited


    Quote from johocknut

    to abuse trade rates that are perfectly legal? You're complaining about a problem that doesn't exist except in your own head.

    So you want to tell me that people don't pull and that the sudden revival of several accounts is coincidence or what do you mean by "in your own head"?

    The rates are legal, the question is why they are legal for some more days if the problem was clearly identified and thus new trade rates introduced

    why does it matter if people are taking advantage of some last minute cheap deut trades before the rates are fixed?

    its absurd to keep adding changes and patches to rules to try to control leaks in resources to other players.


    they are trying to control the whole ecosystem of how the economy works but remain with the packs that grow exponentially the more you grow.


    The solution is dead simple but ogame was never about fairness (not for a long time at least), why do we try to look into another direction? You are killing normal players in expense of preserving the competitive play, where competitive are the 5 players that spend thousands in trying to stay competitive. But you keep having the element that breaks precisely all competitiveness.

    Why not bring back the marketplace with fixed rates and kill all fleet movement now that the main marketplace issue was solved?


    Who cares if top players abuse the trading system? normal players dont care if a player has 2b points more or 2000b more points.


    those top 5 competitive players will find the next thing to become competitive again.


    Even if everything is fixed and you can abuse anything we will still have those five top spenders way ahead and spending money. Ogame should think on how to gain max return of payments from those players with marketing strategies.


    Having whales sell to others instead of ogame might prove to be more lucrative for ogame than actually evading this. it would be more equal for everyone cause lower players who would usually not spend would actually grow faster and become more competitive, actually build fleet and whales find better crashes.


    sounds crazy but imho protecting whales to be sole whales will end up killing the game even more in many levels.


    All you need to do is ALLOW what everyone is doing behind the scenes anyways so you dont have that blaming gane of you do it I dont you prove it blablabla. Everyone in the top is doing weird shit.


    (this will be very unpopular post)

    Quote from -Arcane-
    Quote from pirate andy

    the next logical step is also to make resource pack output fixed and the same for all players. This would stop the current cycle of bigger spenders also having bigger packs and stop everyone being forced to build metal mines in slot 8s.

    I mean gameforge could just introduce a scale, the larger the output the larger the DM cost. give it a base cost of say 100m DSU units for 20k DM + 1k DM per 100m DSU. (i have just pulled these numbers out of my arse for visualisation... i'd recommend if that was a reasonable solution someone with an actual working brain looked at the numbers)

    Least then abuse is expensive.

    I actually thought about this a while back.


    Take the average/weighted average of the Top 20 eco in a uni (since we always use the top 20 as a barometer for merges or rules etc.) --> Produce the weighted pack production for metal, crystal, and deut (no one will use the crystal and deut option obviously but still) --> Assign this weighted average production as the minimum pack amount.


    If someone's individual pack production exceeds the weighted average (regardless of their eco position), they get the higher amount for 1 pack.


    The whales are happy since we won't get 7-8-9-10bn whatever metal without spending as much as they did on mines, ensuring fairness to them.


    The lower ranked guys are happy as they're getting more res for the same cost of 1 pack conpared to what they'd get from their account's production.

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